123ignition distributor - 15000 miles road test - Page 8 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #106 of 510 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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Do you leave the blue wire permanently grounded or do you just ground it when setting up the static timing?

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #107 of 510 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 06:02 AM
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Good question, Ed. I think it is harmless to leave it on, since that's the way to use the tune dizzy on 6V systems. I'm going to leave it grounded for now and use the screw in the cap of the idler arm housing for ground. The LED should light up only if the black wire to the coil is removed, so it is not like it would be firing while the car is running.

The distributor body ground should handle the coil switching current since the instructions do not require the blue wire for normal 12V running. If they have a separate ground for the board, I'd be inclined to use it and keep switching and processing grounds separate.

Last edited by battlecry; 08-11-2014 at 06:52 AM. Reason: correct a mistake
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post #108 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 10:33 AM
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I've just bought a 123 ignition module and fitted this afternoon. Problem was I couldn't see any timing marks on my crankshaft pulley so got a rough tdc from taking the cam cover off.
It now runs roughly.
My question is are there different markings setups for different market cars?

My car is a 75 GT Junior 1600 and was originally sold in Malaysia. So its RHD and it had air con originally but this has been removed.
I'll try and post some photos later but basically the crankshaft pulley has 3 grooves in it. And there is no pointer to be seen anywhere!
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post #109 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 10:47 AM
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Don:

The three grooves could be these:

F – ("Fissa")=Fixed. Static ignition timing.
P – ("Punto")=TDC.
M – ("Massimo") = Ignition timing at maximum advance.

Can't imagine why the P mark should not apply to all markets and Spica/carb models.

Can you determine TDC using a dial indicator plunger through the #1 spark plug hole?

Not familiar with your 1600. Maybe it has a window in the transmission bell and a pointer there for marks on the flywheel like on the Giulietta? My Giulietta did not have a pulley pointer when I bought it.

Roberto
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post #110 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 12:59 PM
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Sorry, what I meant by grooves is where the belts go. Not marks or the like. I haven't explained it very well.
That's a good idea about the bell housing and flywheel, I'll have a look.
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post #111 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 01:09 PM
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Don:

You may want to contact Jube in this thread:

GT 1600 Junior - Alfa Romeo Forum

He may be able to get you a scanned manual.

R.
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post #112 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 03:46 PM
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Would someone have a photo of their crankshaft pulley? And even better with the timing marks and pointer?
I'll try and work out how to post photos and upload mine.
Re the manual, I have one but I can't get at it right now as it's in another place.
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post #113 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 04:48 PM
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Don-
You don't need the markings on your pulley wheel at all.
1. Remove all of your spark-plugs.
2. Put the car in 3rd gear. Release the parking brake.
3. Get an unused pencil or any similar rod in the #1 piston spark-plug hole
4. Get a friend to help you roll the car slowly forward while you watch the pencil in the #1 plug-hole move up and down. When it reaches its highest point you have found TDC. If you go slightly past TDC it's OK to roll the car slightly back and forth to perfect the location. I like to have my fingertip on top of the pencil to detect the start of downward movement.
5. You are now ready to remove the distributor; after you do you -should- find the slot in the distributor drive (using the front of the car as North) angled to North-West.

6. Now is the time to mark your pulley wheel for TDC.

Now you are ready to follow the 123 instruction for getting the LED to light up through the hole in the distributor rotor. Obviously, don't move the car or you will lose TDC, so put the parking brake back on until installation is finished.

A few notes: I had a problem with an oil leak at the base of the distributor despite the rubber o-ring. I believe that I have read here that to prevent that, you put put the o-ring into the slot around the distributor shaft hole and then slide the distributor in. I have not confirmed yet that this will stop the leak, so keep an eye out for a little while. Hopefully someone here knows the answer.

When you reinstall the distributor and are ready to start the car, do not -completely solidly- tighten it down. Leave it just loose enough that, with effort, you can rotate it a few degrees left or right. Now make a test run. With my car, it started perfectly and ran well except for a slight bog immediately off idle. By slightly rotating the distributor a degree or two, I was able to get a slightly faster idle and eliminate the bog off-idle. I then tightened down the distributor permanently.

As a side note, I started out using the curve for the 1750 (my engine is a 1750), but after driving it I found that curve #1 gives me better acceleration. Your engine is, of course different, but do try a couple different curves before settling on one permanently.

71 Spider

Last edited by Lokki; 09-05-2014 at 05:00 PM. Reason: The english, she is hard to write
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post #114 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 05:31 PM
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Lokki, re: the oil leak, I took the o-ring that came with the 123 distributor and used only the original one in the slot in the distributor shaft hole. No leaks.
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post #115 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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One thing that is not clear in the 123 instructions is that if you are using the LED to set the timing, the engine must be set at the static timing mark for selected curve. I went through that in my original post

Quote:
IAP imply that you can set up the distributor using only the "P" mark. This is true if you have a variable delay timing light, but this is also true for any distributor. It is necessary to mark the pulley with the correct "F" mark for the curve of your choice if yopu are to use the static timing method. I always check the timing at maximum advance as I have found that the static timing methods usually produce errors.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #116 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 06:25 PM
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That must be different than the instructions for the USB-programmable version. I'm pretty certain that one said to use TDC for the LED.

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
1974 GTV
1991 Spider
Former: 1987 Milano Gold
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post #117 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
That must be different than the instructions for the USB-programmable version. I'm pretty certain that one said to use TDC for the LED.
That my well be the case. I have not used the programmable one. My 7 year old, original style does everything that I need of it.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #118 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-06-2014, 12:34 AM
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Ed, I think you may well have hit the nail on the head. I'm new to this stuff and I just assumed tdc is what I wanted. So I assume the static timing mark would be before tdc and in the absence of one if I rotate the distributor CW will that have the same effect as retarding it?
If I can't find these marks is this the most accurate way I'm going to get this done, by ear?
I assume a rolling road/dyno would be the best place, although at a cost?
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post #119 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-06-2014, 01:06 AM
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Lokki, thanks for the info to find tdc. Can the static timing Mark be got once tdc is known?
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post #120 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-06-2014, 06:29 AM
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Don: If you have the static advance angle from some manual and you found tdc, measure the diameter of the pulley, multiply by 3.14 to get the circumference. Since that corresponds to 360degs., scale that by XX/360, where xx is the adv.

Get a piece of metal and fashion a pointer of sorts and attach to one of the bolts holding the tach drive under the water pump. Scribe a mark where it points on the pulley at tdc and at the advance point. Then set your dist.
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