123ignition distributor - 15000 miles road test - Page 7 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #91 of 508 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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I don't know about the tunable one, but with the original 123 you mark the crankshaft pulley for the static timing of the curve that you are using. turn the crankshaft until the pointer is at your static mark. Connect 12 v to the red wire and turn the distributor counter clockwise until the LED just turns on.

In my experience, the Bosch ...045 curve is a good one for most applications.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

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post #92 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 01:09 PM
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Does anyone know the details for the "fast road curve" Alfaholics pre-loads in the 123Tune distributors they sell?

Oh, and in response to my question above about the static timing - I ended up setting mine to be right at TDC. That way I can switch betwen various curves by just setting their base value at whatever their static timing is supposed to be. Its awesome to be able to just switch things up with the software and not have to re-adjust the physical static timing at all!

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Last edited by Robertsmania; 02-06-2014 at 01:14 PM.
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post #93 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-09-2014, 09:53 PM
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Can someone please post the numbers (rpm-advance) to enter into the 123TUNE software for Curve D "006 tuning". Thanks
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post #94 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-10-2014, 05:34 AM Thread Starter
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It is flat from zero to 1000 rpm. it then increase linearly to give 21 degrees at 4000 rpm.
2000 rpm = 7.1 degrees
2500 = 10.6
3000 = 14.1
3500 = 17.6
4000 = 21

Add say 14 degrees of static timing to these numbers and you have 35 degrees max advance.

Is this what you need?

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #95 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-10-2014, 06:02 AM
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Thank you for the info alfaparticle. Would I be correct then to entire this curve into a tunable 123 as follows:
500-14
1000-14
2000-21.1
2500-24.6
3000-28.1
3500-31.6
4000-35

Thanks
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post #96 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-10-2014, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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That is correct.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

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post #97 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-11-2014, 02:44 PM
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Thanks for the info Ed. Could you tell me how using the MSD spark box has effected the performance of your Alfa?
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post #98 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-11-2014, 03:09 PM
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Thank you for the info alfaparticle. Would I be correct then to entire this curve into a tunable 123 as follows:
500-14
1000-14
2000-21.1
2500-24.6
3000-28.1
3500-31.6
4000-35

Thanks

You might find this thread from a couple of years ago interesting.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engi...gnition-3.html

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #99 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-11-2014, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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I installed the MSD 6AL because I wanted to be able to fire a low impedance, high energy coil. The 123 requires that the primary coli resistance be at least 1 ohm and all the high energy coils that I know of are less than that. I have found that it is easier to get Webers to run cleanly, without flat spots, if I have a big spark and that is the reason for the low impedance coil. The added benefit for me came when my motor started to burn a lot of oil and foul the plugs. I was able to open up the plug gaps to .055" and that helped a lot.

Now I have a new clean engine and I have closed the plug gaps to .045".

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #100 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-11-2014, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
You might find this thread from a couple of years ago interesting.
I have talked to several people who have found that Alfa's run best with the most advance at mid range then falling back a little at higher rpm. The 123tune allows you to do that but how much do you use? You will need plenty of dyno time or someone who has done it to share the knowledge. Maybe the guys in this thread had that information.

Perhaps one of you guys who have bought the Alfaholics version will check the packaged advance curve with a strobe and tell us about it.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke

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post #101 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-11-2014, 05:47 PM
Richard Jemison
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Spark advance

Ignition timing isn`t just a function of engine size, compression and fuel.
The cam design creates through valve events compression changes that have to be addressed or the results could be expensive.

Typical Alfa Factory Cams have a very slow ramp rate with lots of overlap. These cams as well as old design performance cams bleed off a lot of combustion pressure and allow "linear" spark advance rates as max combustion pressures are at higher rpms.
Modern cam lobe designs build higher combustion pressures lower in the RPM range and ignition timing through the mid range requires testing to get at optimal points. This is a function of several things, piston dome shape, static (starting) compression ratio, induction length, and specific cam lobe design. Commonly these motors above 4500-5000 RPM need a reduced timing advance due to less loss of "bleed-off" of combustion pressure as reduced overlap is severly increasing the CR due to "charge effect" as happens with all induction systems.
Commonly pump gas motors need about a 3 degree retard at 7000 RPM beginning linerally about 5000 RPM with my cams.
Since programable engine controls have become the norm in racing this isn`t a issue, but with higher compression ratio street motors running on pump gas most settle with a reduced "total advance" curve with adequate initial advance and mid range to keep output happy without detonation at high RPM which is evidient only on tear down to see what is damaged.

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

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Last edited by Alfar7; 08-06-2014 at 12:53 PM.
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post #102 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-11-2014, 05:47 PM
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I have one from Alfaholics:

500 -0
800 -6.8
1000-10
1500-15
2000-20
3000-26
4000-30
4600-32.7
5300-36

Hard to start and idle way to low until engine is warm. Until engine is warm it is hard to keep it from dying. In reading the forum it seems that there is not enough static advance.
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post #103 of 508 (permalink) Old 02-11-2014, 06:22 PM
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Jim,Thanks for pointing me to that very interesting post.
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post #104 of 508 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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MSD - Tachometer problem solved

This may prevent someone making the same mistake that I made.
I was running my tachometer wire from the junction of the black wire from the 123 and the white wire of the MSD. I switched it to the tachometer output terminal of the MSD because it is a cleaner signal and my tachometer had a 10% error that I was trying to fix. At the same time I also connected the tachometer input wire of my Zeitronix ZT-2 to the MSD tach terminal. The rpm data to the Zeitronix was fine and my tachometer in the car was fine up to 6000 rpm at which point it dropped to zero. It sprang back to life when the revs dropped below 6k. Today, I left the MSD tach terminal feeding the Zeitronix and moved the car tachometer back to the junction of the black wire from the 123 and the white wire of the MSD. Now everything seems to work fine. The tach signal from the MSD may not be strong enough to run both devices.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #105 of 508 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 05:11 AM
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I just bought a tunable version and found a couple of things not mentioned in the instruction booklet.

The blue wire, which is shown grounded to allow 6 or 12v operation and not shown as needed for normal 12v running is needed to lite up the LED for static timing. Ed from 123 Ignition USA told me it is the ground for the pc board.

The pin on the drive cog can be drifted out and moved to a position 45 degrees out so the rotor can line up like a regular Alfa unit.
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