123ignition distributor - 15000 miles road test - Page 11 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #151 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 05:32 PM
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Testing out on my old distributor so I don't mess up the new one. Only one position on the shaft for the cog on the Bosch 006.
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post #152 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 05:46 PM
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Right. The distributor shaft is drilled once. Once you free the circlip on the 123, you should see or feel that the 123 cog has been drilled twice. One of those holes should allow you to match the rotor-cog orientation of the Alfa distributor.

See the pic, plug 1 is straight ahead. You can make out the clip to give you an idea of the housing orientation, the vacuum port is at 90 from the engine block, full starboard.
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post #153 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 06:00 PM
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Ah yes. There it is. I better mark before I punch. What's starboard again?
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post #154 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 06:13 PM
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To the right when looking straight ahead. Make suuure you don't punch the cog 180 off. I used my old dist. to get the orientation because the cog is asymmetric.
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post #155 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 06:23 PM
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Oh I see. In my car the Spica pump is to starboard and the only place I can put the hole it is behind (aft?).

I'll be taking another stab on Saturday morning. Will update progress.

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post #156 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 08:29 AM
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Not sure what to tell you, Stefano: I sure didn't make any changes to the cog on mine and it worked fine out of the box.

I think there may be a language issue with the install instructions: it says "static timing point", but from the wording I think they mean TDC. I set up my LED with the timing at the P mark and the static timing I got was within 2-3 degrees of where it should've been (did the final adjustment with an advance timing light)

You said you checked timing and it was 16 degrees advanced: did you just try retarding the distributor toward the right point? If you timed to the F mark you may have just had way too much advance.

I would strongly suggest putting the cog back to where it was if you didn't try this first. You should not have had to do change the cog!

Beyond that, double-check you programmed your curves properly before installing it.

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post #157 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 09:21 AM
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Stefano, if you just skimmed my post regarding how I tested the 123 and it was always 45 degrees off please re-read. For me, if when you rotate the pulley with the ignition on and if the test light sparks close or on TDC, leave the cog where it is. Then start the engine.

Yes, two different distributors, but why is the 123 cog set up 45 degrees from where the Bosch's cog, for instance, is located?

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post #158 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-21-2014, 01:08 PM
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Tom - I did try retarding the distributor and I didn't get any results.

This weekend I did the 45 degree cog and I am running seemingly fine now. I do still have the high rpm stumble though that I thought was the Pertronix letting go finally. I guess I can assume that the Pertronix is fine and if I want to sell the Bosch dist with the Pertronix unit together I can feel confident that it wasn't the issue.

I think I will visit some spark plug threads and try different ones out to cure the stumble. I can certainly play around with the high rpm advance, but since it was there before, I don't think it is advance related. I have changed everything now - Wes Pump and injectors, distributor, coil, wires, cap, rotor, and plugs (B7ES), good ground strap, voltage regulator, and battery.

But for this thread, I think I've got it solved. It certainly took a lot out of me though.

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post #159 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-21-2014, 02:38 PM
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Man, that's pretty strange. Glad you got it working, though. You might try contacting 123 ignition anyway, see if they know what's going on: maybe they're sending some of them out set up wrong?

Tom

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post #160 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-23-2014, 11:48 PM
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Good to hear! I'll be putting mine in this weekend. I'm curious if I will also have to change it.

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post #161 of 508 (permalink) Old 09-24-2014, 06:26 AM
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I'm feeling a lot more positive now. I narrowed down my stumble to one cylinder and replaced it with a hotter plug. The car is running like a scalded cat now. Very smooth and pulls very strong up to the sixes. I left the USB plugged in so I can adjust the curve later. If I find better settings, I will post the curve. I am running 10.9 intake cam and 10.2 exhaust with an HP Ingram Pump, so maybe I can squeeze a little more out of it via advance.

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post #162 of 508 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 07:28 AM
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I feel a little silly for asking this but how hard should it be to see / adjust the curve selector? In his original post (great writeup--thanks), Alfaparticle noted that a magnifying glass and flashlight were usually required. I'm using both but, for the life of me, can't even see the selector with this approach, let alone the letters/numbers enough to switch to a different curve.

My eyesight is not great but not terrible and I had my glasses on. Also had some younger eyes on it and he couldn't see it either. I've tried multiple angles and had assistants hold the light, which often seems to glare off the magnifying glass. The 2x / 6x bifocal magnifying glass does have a couple LEDs on the bottom but they are nowhere near bright enough. Hoping not to have to unhook the wires and remove the unit from the car. What am I missing?

One issue may be that the grub screw was not present. I did not install the unit but pretty sure it was there when the mechanic did. It must have fallen out at some point. Is it possible the selector did too? Didn't seem too dirty under there but I did do some gentle cleaning with a Q tip. Scratching my head here....

My unit is set to the F curve. Was going to try the A curve because I can provoke mild pinging at WOT even running 93 octane gas and Lucas octane booster. Engine is a 2.0 with 10.4 pistons, Euro cams and Dellortos.

Any tips on the curve selector switch and setting itself are appreciated. Thanks in advance (!).
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post #163 of 508 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 07:40 AM
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Try sticking a smartphone down there and take a photo.
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post #164 of 508 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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I doubt that the selector has fallen out. It is a rotary switch. I never had problems seeing the switch but the letters and numbers were hard to see. Could there be oil and dirt in there that is obscuring the switch? You might try squirting an electrically safe cleaner, like Deoxit. I always removed mine from the car for adjustments.

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post #165 of 508 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 09:19 AM
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Which model 123 you you have?

There are two now. The newer one has a hole in the side of the distributor body in which you inser a USB cable, link the distributor to a laptop, and then change the curves. There is no selector to turn. With this model you don't need to remove the distributor (as I understand things) since the hole in the side is accessible in situ.

http://www.123ignition.nl/id/images/123-tune-4-rv.jpg

The older model, which I have, has a hole in the bottom of the distributor body - not in the shaft which you show in your photo

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With this model you ARE going to have to remove the distributor from the car. It is impossible to remove the plug otherwise. The hole is plugged with a threaded plug which uses an Allen wrench to remove it. The hole is not quite as big as your little finger but easy to notice. The plug is very long... And a pain to remove. If it is missing a rubber plug will do fine to replace it.

If you do have this model and just can't see the selector way, way down in the hole, you hopefully can detect the shape of the selector 'knob'. It has a "+" slot in it for a tiny Phillips driver, and one end of the "+" has an arrow shape like this ^ to indicate that leg of the "+" is the selector point. Yes, the identifiers ARE TINY but if you can identify just one of them, you can figure out where you are and work from there. I like the suggestion above of a bright light, a phone camera, and the zooming the picture up on your laptop.

Here is a link to the website that shows the orientation of the 16 curve identifiers.

http://www.123ignitionusa.com/123jag6.pdf

If you need the decoder for what curves the identifiers signify, let me know and I will scan it and post it for you.

Good luck and keep us posted!

71 Spider

Last edited by Lokki; 04-23-2015 at 09:55 AM.
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