123ignition distributor - 15000 miles road test - Page 10 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #136 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-14-2014, 01:04 PM
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I set the crank at the static mark, F mark on my pulley. My distributor had the number 1 cylinder pointing at about 7 O'clock. It's a Bosch 006. I took it out and the oil pump cogs are aligned along the length of the engine; 3 and 9 O'clock.

Where is 12 Noon if #1 is "at 7 0'clock?

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post #137 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-14-2014, 01:42 PM
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Standing next to the car looking down into the dist hole, I would consider the front of the car 90 (someone posted a pic of the rotor pointing at 90). The rear of the car would be 270. My rotor was pointing downward and slightly back. I would call this a ljttle past 180, maybe 190-200, so 7 O'clock on the clock face. The cog slots in the oil pump down in the hole are perfectly aligned with the length of the car. 90 and 270, or 3 and 9 O'clock. 12 noon would be pointing toward the exhaust side of the engine, slicing the engine like a loaf of bread. Asuming an analog clock, or a compass face.

Blue wire was grounded each time I tried. Black wire left off. Instructions are pretty clear. It also stated static timing. I can certianly try tdc. That is even more advanced than F, though.

Thanks,

Stefano
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Last edited by iachella; 09-14-2014 at 01:46 PM. Reason: more clarity
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post #138 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-14-2014, 02:36 PM
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Stefano, S and M are advanced from TDC. Time your distributor to TDC and set your static and advanced curve with respect to it.

You are not 180 out, are you? The distributor cog is asymmetric. I would change the cog position by removing the circlip and punching out the pin. You can then have the rotor pointing dead ahead like other Alfas and have no doubt.
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post #139 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-14-2014, 02:42 PM
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If you are using the 123-Tune, it only makes sense to me to have the static timing set to TDC - P on the pulley.

Like I said on mine, getting the LED to turn on was only in the general area for TDC and I had to fine tune it with a timing light to get it absolutely correct.

With the pulley at P on compression for #1, the rotor should be pointing towards where you have the #1 spark plug connected. For me, that is towards the front of the motor, or 90 as you describe above - but if yours is pointing in a different position, thats where you need to connect the wire for #1.

The software lets you set the idle advance starting at 500RPM. To get it setup, I set mine to stay at 0 for 500-800 RPM. Then used a timing light and small rotational adjustment of the distributor to get it so it was firing #1 right on the P indicator.

That way I know zero degrees on the software matches up with zero degrees in the motor.

So when I then specify 10deg at 500 to 800 RPM, thats what I'm getting. You can think of that as the traditional 'static timing'.

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post #140 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-15-2014, 03:41 PM
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I apologize for asking a question that doesn't pertain to the current thread...when the LED light peaks through (and later the car runs), is it at the top, or the bottom?

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post #141 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-15-2014, 04:28 PM
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I'll be trying the suggestions in a couple of days. Thanks for the input. I'm taking the bus right now.

Biba, that all depends on what "it" is.

Stefano
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post #142 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-15-2014, 06:23 PM
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There are four oval openings which the green LED is to peak through when at TDC with ignition on. Facing the engine from the right side, does the LED show at the top or the bottom of one of the ovals (I'm assuming the forward of the four ovals)?

This does apply to the current thread. (Electronic 123 installed) I'd have the engine about 40 degrees BTDC with the rotor such that it will face forward on #1 at TDC with the ignition test light between #1 ignition wire and the light which is then attached to #1 spark plug. Turning the engine by hand I'd take it to TDC and the test light would not only not light at TDC it wouldn't light for perhaps 40 or 60 degrees ATDC.

I'll just say that I bought the 123 for my client with a 'special' advance curve installed. Had I been able to get the 123 to fire on #1 at TDC It should have run quite well.

Installing a known Bosch analog distributor, the engine started fine.

If you have one of these test lights (Harbor Freight), hook it up and see if it lights on TDC. If it doesn't, and I suspect it might not, though once you solve it, please let me in on the trick.

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post #143 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-15-2014, 06:50 PM
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Biba, can you compare the angle between the drive cog and rotor of the Bosch and the 123? Are they the same?
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post #144 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-15-2014, 07:22 PM
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The light can light up anywhere. I pull the disributor out and leave the red and blue wires connected and I turn the cog in the air. It lights up many times all the way around. I'm struggling to get a feel for it because I feel you could set it up to spark while the rotor is between posts. I know this must not be the case because the instructions are pretty simple. In my case the light was always lighting up underneath the metal between the slots. I had to keep adjusting the bracket and since the stud on the block is offcenter, I had to guess on how much to move it. And I usually moved it the wrong way and had to do it again. It was quite time consumming and I drenched two tshirts with sweat and then I caught a cold and had to stay in on Sunday.

Did everyone have the same kind of bracket on thier old distributor that they moved over to the new one? Did you get it positioned correctly on the first try? I saw this step as pretty arbitrary, and not described in the insructions.

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post #145 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-15-2014, 07:39 PM
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First try? Not a chance. My bracket from a Giulietta is probably different from yours. I could loosen the nut securing the bracket to the distributor shaft and insert a screwdriver in in the slot. Twisting the screwdriver loosened the bracket enough so I could rotate the distributor body to do some rough aligning with the distributor still in the block.
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post #146 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-15-2014, 07:45 PM
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battlecry, the 123 I'm referring to is possibly still in my client's '66 GTV's trunk where I placed it when shipping his car back to him. It left with the reliable analog Bosch distributor installed. However, I do believe the angle was 45 degrees.

However, I do have another electronic 123 in one of my current client's 1750 engine which will go into his 750 Spider. I have no use for a laptop and if I did, it would be a Mac. However, he has a PC. So I made it clear to him before ordering it, that he was in charge of the 123 and that I'll assist.

I really like electronic devices...when they work. Perhaps the previous client's 123 was an anomaly - but apparently iachella - who knows his way around both Alfa's and electronics - is also scratching his head. That should not be the case. Also the 123's 'wiring diagram' sucks in its lack of being specific as to which wire goes where.

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post #147 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-15-2014, 07:53 PM
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Biba: Mine came 45 deg off too and caused me more confusion than it should have. Fixing the cog position allowed me to work with it the way I was used to and expected things to look. Regards, Roberto
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post #148 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-15-2014, 08:02 PM
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I'm not sure what to tell you guys. I had the Tune version and didn't have any issues: the instructions were clear and it was crazy easy to set up. The LED got me within 2-3 degrees of static timing and I did the final adjustment with a timing light.

I don't remember which direction, but there was a specific direction you were supposed to rotate the distributor body to make the LED light. Maybe that's the problem?

Beyond that I suppose it could be a hardware issue. Perhaps try contacting the 123 guys directly and see what they say.

Tom

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post #149 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-17-2014, 04:20 PM
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battlecry, just so we're on the same page, by the term cog you mean the horizontal part at the lower end of the 123? I really don't want to pull it back out since it was a bear to get the unit past the upper O-ring so as to get the cog all the way in. Also, and I'll admit I'm not always as observant as I should be, but you can disassemble the cog at the end and move it? Or is it handled from above?

If this involves the six upper (below the rotor) allan head screws and turning 45 degrees - that really scare me because I would assume there's a bunch of electronics 'down there'. Also there won't be openings for some of the screws when turned.

And if this is the solution, I don't see how the majority have been able to get their electronic 123's up and running in no time. Dialing it in of course adds to the time involved.

And again, if this is the solution, why do the 123 folks ship them 45 degrees off?

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post #150 of 510 (permalink) Old 09-17-2014, 05:39 PM
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Yes, Biba. I discarded the o-ring that came in the shaft of the 123 and used silicone grease on the upper o-ring. Made it somewhat easier to push down.

No need to mess with anything on the top. The cog comes out the regular way for a distributor teardown. There is a circlip around the cog that you carefully pry off with a small screwdriver or such tool then unwind it out. With the clip out, you should be able to see the pin that holds the cog captive with the shaft. You should also see or feel the other set of holes to change the alignment 45 degrees. Carefully punch the pin out, rotate to the new holes and repunch back. I had a Marelli from an old Alfetta handy so I could confirm the cog-rotor angle and wouldn't be 180 degrees out.

Look at the picture on post 62. Plug 1 is towards the engine block. Not where you would expect it.

123 should have made some reference to this in the sparse instructions. Or maybe shipped it aligned for an Alfa. Anyway, Biba, water under the bridge.

It works really well, and the reverse slope at idle trick advance curve is the ticket for controlling idle speed on cammed out veloces. See Bjornbusen's post 34 here:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engi...gnition-3.html

Regards,

Roberto
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