Could you fit an Ferrari F154 engine in the new Giulia Quadrifoglio? - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 16Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #46 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 03:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,781
I think that saying a car has too much power, I see only on this forum. Cant say I see it on german fora, most want more

Alfa which is a sporty brand has to increase power with the compettion. For the eighties 200Hp was enough for a sporty car, today 500Hp is just right to be called sporty. So there has been development. And Alfa still wants to be called sporty. Compared with modern cars like the Tesla P85 which can boast 700Hp in a family car, the Alfa is not outrageous at all. You might even want more of the sporty stuff. Factory says 50-100+ Hp is no problem, maybe with 4WD. Then its all up to how robust the engine is built to manage. Turbos and valves can be changed as well the the program. I think if Alfa sells a lot of cars in US and Europe, there will be demand for upgrades from tuners, which will result in the same upgrades as the compettion do.

G.
Gabor K. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #47 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 04:16 PM
Registered User
 
oz3litre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Posts: 3,806
I am not saying 500 HP is too much, rather that it is plenty for most conditions in which the cars will be driven. If people want more, that is up to them I guess, but I reckon they will never be satisfied. Lets not forget that the majority of the Giulias sold will be a lot less powerful. I would buy a QV in a blink if I had the funds.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), son’s girlfiend’s car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (son’s new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
oz3litre is offline  
post #48 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 04:35 PM
Registered User
 
ARwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Transplanted from Holland to The Armpit of New Jersey
Posts: 2,305
Garage

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”
Oo--V--oO There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness".
ARwrench is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #49 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 05:46 PM
Registered User
 
aldo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,205
Garage
Hmmm. I can admire the sophisticated look of the millions of tiny bits and appreciate the art involved in mashing all that shinny stuff into such a compact package. But,

Engines are not beautiful like they used to be.
Attached Images
 

Ciao tutti

93 Spider (red)
87 Milano (not red)
aldo is offline  
post #50 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 06:30 PM
Registered User
 
oz3litre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Posts: 3,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo View Post
Hmmm. I can admire the sophisticated look of the millions of tiny bits and appreciate the art involved in mashing all that shinny stuff into such a compact package. But,

Engines are not beautiful like they used to be.
Yes it is a pity that Alfa succumbed to putting Tupperware on their engines. It doesn't suggest there is anything special hiding underneath it. I am always proud to open the bonnet of my GT 3.2 at displays because it is a work of art.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), son’s girlfiend’s car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (son’s new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
oz3litre is offline  
post #51 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 09:41 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,288
Same with my 164LS.


"today 500Hp is just right to be called sporty"

Wow, your definition of sporty sure must be different than most who were raised on traditional sporty cars for the average enthusiast.

Ok, maybe very high end over the top sporty, but for most of us who either cannot afford super cars, or do like a more balanced product, that number comes across as relatively esoteric, excessive, regardless of how it drives.
PhilBoncer likes this.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 01-29-2017 at 10:53 AM.
Del is offline  
post #52 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 11:16 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,781
Interesting see that the one who is bored contributes with nothing, just wants the info flow their way! What ever..

Anyway on this model, the Alfa Quadrifoglio, the factory has been very withholding of pictures of their new engines, while earlier there were always nice studio photos of the new engines in their press kit. Just wonder why they are holding back so much, releasing only engine in car photos? So I could only get hold of 2 further detail photos, one of them of the rear of the engine from the video introduction. Will see if I can get more from the distributor here! On the video photo it can be seen clearly that the cam drive is on the rear of the engine, the clutch side, just like on the Ferrari engines 488 and California T. The other photo has another angle than the first I showed before, showing details of the front.

G.
Attached Images
  
Gabor K. is offline  
post #53 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 11:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,781
The Ferrari V8 engines latest generation from California T and 488.

Differences to be seen between those 2 are flat plenums of the 488 and also much bigger headers on the 488 compared to the California-T. The California T seems to be one to compare with the Alfa engine for similarities if there are any, you judge yourself.
Bore and stroke is the same, V-angle the same, so is the rear cam drive and direct injection. What we miss is data for cylinder distance and valve sizes for the two engines. Well, here are photos of the Ferrari engines.

Further photos of the California T engine:

Ferrari California T

G.
Attached Images
    
Gabor K. is offline  
post #54 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 11:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,781
The Giulia Qaudrifoglio.

Then there is the engine compartment arrangement (also called packaging). Surely everybody wants a nice engine compartment, but also surely many were disappointed that Alfa did not manage to package the V6 engine more nicely, as in the old days of Busso V6!

Their answer was that there are so many valves and tubes that the only solution was place a plastic plate on the top of the engine!

Then, Ferrari manages without plastic cover!? They have the same concept very nicely without plastic camouflage.

Also I have compared the Quadrifoglio engine compartment with the compartment of the Audi RS4 B5. For those who dont know the Audi has same type of V6 90 engine 2,7L, with twin turbos. On the Audi its a much nicer arrangement, and what seems like plastic look alike tubes to the plenums, are actually aluminium tubes with carbon fiber plates attached around. Then question, why dont Alfa make something like that?? Styling department was on vacation?

G.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Gabor K.; 01-29-2017 at 12:08 PM.
Gabor K. is offline  
post #55 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:12 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,288
"Interesting see that the one who is bored contributes with nothing, just wants the info flow their way! What ever"

Personally, I find the ongoing discussion about the origins of the hot Giulia engine to be relatively esoteric, limited to a few, although not boring. It is interesting, and fitting to be in the BB.

We are free to express an opinion (clearly based on your own stated), which is felt by many just as you are to express yours. No dissing intended or necessary.

Just saying, it would seem that most potential customers of the new Alfa are likely waiting for a midpriced, midpowered version, that ultra high powered versions are limited by finances or desires to just a few customers, just as the 4C has been, although I admit that in it's 4 door configuration, it can be more practical in that respect. Most of those desired customers would most likely deem their purchase versions as pretty sporty and fun.

Thus, the big engine is interesting in design and output but not likely the reason for most of the potential sales for a sporty sedan.

cheers and peace, from a Norse descendant (Lofoten), Akershus?).

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 01-29-2017 at 12:36 PM.
Del is offline  
post #56 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,781
Sure, peace, but that remark was aimed at the guy with the poster!

With some luck maybe I will get the opportunity to ride a Quadrifoglio and a 4C on track, on an Alfa gathering.

Lofoten is a really scenic place, most leave for Oslo or abroad for job opportunities. Myself I am from Budapest, but living here a Lifetime:

Cheers
G.

Last edited by Gabor K.; 01-29-2017 at 01:10 PM.
Gabor K. is offline  
post #57 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:28 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,288
Ok, understand. Mea culpa. Misunderstanding, lol.

There are those who perhaps just like to tweek people, just for yucks, then disappearing. Still, interesting discussion. The pictures of that engine make it look like it is totally complicated.

Mother's folks came from Lofoten and east of Oslo in farmland. Have been there several times, and will return again to take the Hurtigruten up the coast, and visit exchange student parents again.

The Giulias are now showing up here locally I guess. Haven't seen a 4C on the road yet, garage queens I spect. Test drive coming up this Spring I've been told, lol. Won't be serious until they announce a European purchase plan. No TV ads.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 01-30-2017 at 09:52 AM.
Del is offline  
post #58 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 12:23 AM
Registered User
 
kcabpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Antioch CA
Posts: 4,275
Not saying whether the Guilia engine is or isn't of Ferrari origin but it is interesting to note that the upcoming 2018 Ferrari Dino is going to (or at least was slated to) have the same engine.

2018 Ferrari Dino Review And Rumor | 2017 - 2018 New Cars Reviews

Paul - 1972 Spider - (2)1991 164S's - 1983 308 - 2001 Discovery - 1997 F350

Last edited by kcabpilot; 01-30-2017 at 12:26 AM.
kcabpilot is offline  
post #59 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 06:55 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,781
Just reminder that Alfa is a sporty brand, should actually do some car related sporty activities!!

Well. TESLA is a Family sedan with about 700hp in the 4WD Version. no sporty ambitions like Alfa Romeo. Still they now will participate in an electric car competition in Europe and the US. They removed 500kg of luxury item from the car and made carbon fiber parts in addition to make the car competitive on track. It now makes 0-100 in 2,9s. Hopefully this is enough to make the car competitive. Will be interesting to see lap times comparable to other GT cars with petrol engines.

And Alfa, will they have electric cars? Havent heard of any! Even Ferrari made a hybrid at least to show they coped with the technology. I´d say to Alfa, keep in touch with technology trends!

Electric GT Tesla Model S | News, Specs, Performance, Pictures | Digital Trends


G.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Gabor K.; 02-05-2017 at 06:59 AM.
Gabor K. is offline  
post #60 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 07:09 AM
Registered User
 
ARwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Transplanted from Holland to The Armpit of New Jersey
Posts: 2,305
Garage
Quote:
Interesting see that the one who is bored contributes with nothing, just wants the info flow their way! What ever..
Who is this referring to?

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”
Oo--V--oO There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness".
ARwrench is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome