Could you fit an Ferrari F154 engine in the new Giulia Quadrifoglio? - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 16Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,768
Yes, forget the Ferrari V8 installation idea, I think tunig the Alfa engine like the Audi RS4 B5 above is much better!

Already chip tuners are offering +40 to 50Hp more for around 1000 Euros. Even there is a company offering 600Hp just by adjusting the Electronics. If more is wanted I am sure Audi or Nissan GTR tuners can get the big power out and find the limits of the engine. Surely Ferrari built this engine for Alfa a robust one!? Finances are the limit. Scaring Porsches on the Autobahn cant be wrong?

https://www.br-performance.lu/en-lu/...-2-9-v6-turbo/

https://www.dyno-chiptuningfiles.com...ifoglio-510hp/

G.

Last edited by Gabor K.; 01-24-2017 at 12:20 PM.
Gabor K. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:57 PM
Registered User
 
PhilBoncer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Pittsfield, NH
Posts: 37
Conversely, the vast majority of the Alfas we all already own, which we have because they are fun to drive in a sporting manner, have well under 200hp. Many are closer to 100hp. You can have a lot of fun, and do anything you need to do on the street in real life, with 200hp or less. My wife and I are having fun driving a 1st-gen Mini-Cooper S with 165hp -- it's more than fast enough for real life, and I only occasionally wish for more power.

I'm not even tempted by the Quadrifoglio. When the standard Giulia TI arrives in my area, I'll check that out -- a measly 280hp! <scoff>

PhilB

Last edited by PhilBoncer; 01-25-2017 at 08:08 AM.
PhilBoncer is offline  
post #18 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 01:55 PM
Registered User
 
GV27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 1,718
Garage
Send a message via AIM to GV27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
"Everyone on this thread is saying "ooooooohhhhhh, Ferrari, Ferrari, Ferrari""

Uh, no, not everybody. Actually, not that many, lol.
Whatever Del, you know you're drooling all over you keyboard just thinking about it.

Chris

1990 Spider Veloce
GV27 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 03:57 PM
Registered User
Gold Subscriber
 
oz3litre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Posts: 3,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by GV27 View Post
Then there's the little detail that the Alfa already HAS a Ferrari motor.
How many times does it need to be repeated that the Giulia engine is NOT a Ferrari in any way, shape, or form?

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), son’s girlfiend’s car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (son’s new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
oz3litre is offline  
post #20 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 05:21 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,232
No, Chris, I could have owned Ferraris in years past, but after seeing how quickly they tended to wear out, and how much it cost to rebuild them, courtesy of my expert Alfa/Ferrari mechanic Carlo since mid 60's, seeing many being rebuilt, I decided I didn't need that sort of stuff. Still don't really need one, lol. Alfas have been Italian enough for me. Besides, needed mostly a daily driver for the life I led, and Ferraris weren't that, for sure.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
Del is offline  
post #21 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 11:38 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz3litre View Post
How many times does it need to be repeated that the Giulia engine is NOT a Ferrari in any way, shape, or form?
I seems the thread starters only intention was to start a discussion without participating! So why no input from him?

About the Alfa V6 engine: In the press release it says the Alfa engine is Ferrari derived. I understood it like it was developed by Ferrari for Alfa Romeo With the 488 engine as a starting point. At this point I am not sure if that is correct as its hard to get more history and details on the Alfa engine. I guess we have to do a little research then! Well, it says Ferrari derived many Places.

Here a hot lap un Nürburgring with the paddle shift version! Seems the tyres are slipping a bit!


http://www.motoring.com.au/alfa-rome...lia-qv-103747/

A photo of the 2,9 L engine out of the car.


G.
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Gabor K.; 01-25-2017 at 01:36 PM.
Gabor K. is offline  
post #22 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 11:55 AM
Registered User
 
PhilBoncer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Pittsfield, NH
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz3litre View Post
How many times does it need to be repeated that the Giulia engine is NOT a Ferrari in any way, shape, or form?
I guess until you bamboozle everyone into thinking that's true.

The truth is in between. It is an Alfa engine, installed in an Alfa, and not installed in any Ferraris. OTOH, it is based on the technology and configuration of a Ferrari engine (or 3/4 of one, anyway), and was developed with their help.

So while it is not a Ferrari in any way, it is one to some extent in shape and form.



PhilB
LaLinea likes this.
PhilBoncer is offline  
post #23 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 05:02 PM
Registered User
Gold Subscriber
 
oz3litre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Posts: 3,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoncer View Post
I guess until you bamboozle everyone into thinking that's true.

The truth is in between. It is an Alfa engine, installed in an Alfa, and not installed in any Ferraris. OTOH, it is based on the technology and configuration of a Ferrari engine (or 3/4 of one, anyway), and was developed with their help.

So while it is not a Ferrari in any way, it is one to some extent in shape and form.



PhilB
Ok. That is explained well Phil.
PhilBoncer likes this.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), son’s girlfiend’s car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (son’s new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
oz3litre is offline  
post #24 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 05:22 PM
Duk
Registered User
 
Duk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South Australia
Posts: 1,730
Garage
It did seam very strange that Alfa Romeo 'developed' a 90* V6.
It's not a natural angle for a V6. And the fact that the engine has 3/4 the capacity of the 488 engine also looks to be too much of a coincidence.

Slowly Progressing Vortech Supercharged 1990 Alfa Romeo 75 Potenziata. Out of Action Twin-Charged 1988 AW11 MR2. Current Daily Driver, The Glorified Taxi 2006 BF FPV F6 Typhoon.
Duk is offline  
post #25 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 06:23 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,232
Well, I suppose one might think that the 90 deg Vee would give them a little more room under the hood for all that other junk on top of the engine? Esp since with the engine being fore and aft as compared to, say the sideways 164/166, they have the extra width they can work with.
LaLinea likes this.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
Del is offline  
post #26 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 07:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz3litre View Post
The Giulia engine is pure Alfa. It is not derived from Ferrari. Some Ferrari people helped design it, that is all.
There is no Alfa anymore (even if Alfa Romeo Spa exists). It is a brand, not a company with own engineering and philosophy.
The project was done at former Irisbus building in Modena. All employees are from Maserati. Just take a look at LinkedIn

However the team done a great job in the best Alfa traditions
PhilBoncer likes this.
Max Pershyn is offline  
post #27 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 12:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,768
Here an article in English about the Giulia body and engine Development, also seen the same story in Italian articles. The whole thing started from scratch in an empty Maserati race building, and grew up to a big operation in another left Irisbus building in Modena.
The key people were transferred from Ferrari, teamleader Philippe Krief for platform and body and Gianluca Pivetti who would buil 3 engines from scratch, also the V6 2,9L. Pivetti had been leading engineer of the development of the Ferrari 488 and California T engines. I this article the Alfa team confirms that the V6 engine is an independent construction with features like cylinder cut out which the Ferrari engines dont have. However from the article one gets the impression it looks like a Ferrari construction. Well its made by a former Ferrari engineer!

Even though accepting the story that the V6 is an internal Alfa construction, there are many similarities with the Ferrari California T engine.

Like same 90 degr. V-angle
Same bore and stroke
Same Direct injection system
Same cam drive on power output( rear) side, like on race engines, Like the 90 degr 155V6 TI engine.

Although this is an engine made by Alfa it seems to have a lot of influence from Ferrari via its ex Ferrari engineer!

Here the article.

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/feature...in-development

Italian translation:

G.
Attached Images
 
Duk likes this.

Last edited by Gabor K.; 01-26-2017 at 12:44 PM.
Gabor K. is offline  
post #28 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 01:21 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 675
V6 90 from 155 V6 TI was based on PRV (Peugeot, Renault, Volvo) architecture. It does not mean that the engine was derived from PRV, but it was the base for the homologation

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Max Pershyn is offline  
post #29 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 01:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 675
Kreif is not from Ferrari. He is from FIAT. He used to work in Alfa, was responsible for Q2 (147, GT), MiTo, Giulietta. Before he worked in Michelin.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Max Pershyn is offline  
post #30 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 03:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,768
Yes I know about the V6 90 of the !55 V6 TI!

About Philippe Krief, he must be a great guy together with Gianluca Pivetti they must be dynamite, looking at their achievements in 2,5 years!

However my info about Krief coming from Ferrari seems to be correct, maybe he has moved between Alfa and Ferrari!

Who is Philippe Krief?
Philippe Krief
, Head of Alfa Romeo Engineering, is the real father of Giulia: he Marchionne has entrusted this project to the Lombard brand renaissance. It is not a novice in Alfa Romeo history, had already worked on the 147, the MiTo and Giulietta, putting his hand more or less on all the cars of the past 13 years produced by the House of Alfa. He then moved to Ferrari participating in successful projects such as the Ferrari 458 and Ferrari 488. The highly technical and stylistic imprint of the Prancing Horse was then reported and customized on Alfa Giulia. The sedan, however, is not a hybrid Ferrari / Alfa but a thoroughbred Alfa Romeo, as dreamed by Engineer Krief. A new car, technically uncompromising but unique, technically, both aesthetically. Philippe Krief will be one of the designers who will try to bring in the history of Alfa Romeo cars: many of its engineering innovations are applied on models that will follow Giulia.

Alfa Romeo Giulia: intervista a Philippe Krief

If you have more photos of the Alfa engine and data like cylinder spacing, valve sizes compared to the Ferrari V8, it would be interesting!

G.
Gabor K. is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome