First Big-Bore Brera Conversion Underway! - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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First Big-Bore Brera Conversion Underway!

This thing torn-down is an absolute masterpiece!

The sump acts as a girdle, there are three oil-squirters per hole cooling and lubing the pistons from the bottom and it is a direct-injection petrol motor! This basically means that it has a 2-stage fuel-pump system that delivers petrol in there at some 1,700 PSI! (Versus 40-45 pounds on a more conventional setup, to completely mist the fuel and shoot it right onto the tops of the pistons like a diesel - also cooling the charge - and eliminating knock)!

This is how they get away with an 11.25:1 compression motor that will run on standard pump gas and never ping! Unfortunately Alfa also chose to do their own short-block iteration and bring the bore down from the 3.6 litre's base design at 94mm for the other versions of the same "High Feature" / "Global" "Alloytec" design, to an 89mm bore for a 3.2 litre displacement, but they managed to keep the initial power-rating...) The headers are crap and the heads stand to gain a great deal, but we mainly have to get the displacement back!

They all utilize an 85.6mm stroke and basically we'll start the big-bore offerings of these motors for the street by simply bringing the bore back up to 94mm, or 95mm for now, but with a compression-bump to 11.7:1. On race applications we'll steal a couple of mm from the connecting-rod big-end journals on the crank (huge 56mm housing) with custom journals and rods, to get a further bump into the 3.8-3.9 litre regions! Even with the standard stroke though, the maximum bore capacity is apparently 4.0 litres from increases to the bore alone!

I smell a 4.2 eventually! For now, I'm working on the piston-design with the usual sources; I'll post pics when they are done! (Not allowed to post engine pics, so don't ask...)

Full-Race 6-Speed Getrag 3.7 Litre 24v Milano; 1993 155 TS 2.0; 1999 24 Valve 3.0 916 GTV; 1995 164Q; 1987 Milano Verde; 1966 GTV Stepnose

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 06:42 PM
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JJ, can you put it into the 116?

Also, one thing some people have complained about the DI engines is carbon buildup since there is no fuel (additive) to clean the valves which may be contaminated by oil vapor and EGR.

1987 Milano Gold 3.2 24V + JK Cams
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-17-2010, 04:25 PM
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This is the holden motor, yeah?

1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - pretty much finished!
Bunch of bikes too.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-17-2010, 06:33 PM
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*Some photo's twice in these 2 articles.
Looks more like decent engineering rather than outstanding engineering. Certainly nothing that other manufacturers haven't already been using for years in some way or another.

Why is this a 'Browser Warning'?
Why??? (Autospeed)

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-18-2010, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 75evo View Post
JJ, can you put it into the 116?
Would be nice! We'll probably do some measuring before it goes back into the Brera.

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Originally Posted by la_strega_nera View Post
This is the holden motor, yeah?
Well, it's not exactly "Holden's motor" but yes, that one. It grew from a cooperative development between GM / Holden with efforts between Australia, Germany, the United States and Sweden. Some of them are built there in Melbourne and then some of them in Canada and Mexico and here in the US...

Holden does produce their own 3.2 in Melbourne derived from the same fundamental design; Alfa completes their cores at their own factories in Italy, but with their own heads...

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Looks more like decent engineering rather than outstanding engineering. Certainly nothing that other manufacturers haven't already been using for years in some way or another.
Dunno man, I'd call 304-315 horsepower from a V6 production motor (on pump-gas), with modern emissions requirements outstanding engineering, would you not? Sure, I mean Alfa already produced a Stoichiometric 4-banger some 8-9 years ago, but still - they needed something new and this seems as good as any internal effort that they could have mustered.

Full-Race 6-Speed Getrag 3.7 Litre 24v Milano; 1993 155 TS 2.0; 1999 24 Valve 3.0 916 GTV; 1995 164Q; 1987 Milano Verde; 1966 GTV Stepnose
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junglejustice View Post
Dunno man, I'd call 304-315 horsepower from a V6 production motor (on pump-gas), with modern emissions requirements outstanding engineering, would you not? Sure, I mean Alfa already produced a Stoichiometric 4-banger some 8-9 years ago, but still - they needed something new and this seems as good as any internal effort that they could have mustered.
The 2010 VE Commodore SV6 3.6 SIDI (direct injection) is quoted at 210Kw or 281hp. Certainly not to be sneezed at, but I call it more "about time" than anything else. A lot of this technology has been around for ages, but it is good to see it in a nice compact, readily available package.
Hopefully running the SIDI system is something aftermarket computers can do. That and the continuously variable valve timing.
Obviously retaining the factory ECU would solve some problems, but would introduce other because of the missing interfaces with the rest of the car. Real time tuning of the factory ECU is/was available for the earlier engines, but I haven't seen any mention of the SIDI version.

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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Good point; we were talking about it amongst ourselves too - how the hell would one tune this thing on anything less than a 6,000 dollar MoTec license! The GoTech will run the vario cams and then injection is just ignition-pulse, so perhaps it's not that complicated, but still...

When I drove the 159 with this motor in SA, it was just so bloody smooth - the mapping was undeniable - what to do - what to do once you modify the bloody thing for a race application? In the road-car it's easy - UniChip the bugger. There aren't any intake flapper-crapper restrictions anymore, so now you just want the piggy-back tune-ability! I'm hoping that since the motor made it into the Camaro, that tuners end up with open-source software of sorts - like the Honda guys did!

If Piet de Weerd (UniChip / Dastek) manages to squeeze 1300+ horsepower from his own Gallardo (running two UniChips), he can probably figure this Alfa V6 / JTS system out...

Full-Race 6-Speed Getrag 3.7 Litre 24v Milano; 1993 155 TS 2.0; 1999 24 Valve 3.0 916 GTV; 1995 164Q; 1987 Milano Verde; 1966 GTV Stepnose
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 05:34 PM
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Autospeed is about the earlier V6 (pre SIDI) but if the same approach can be used with the SIDI

Autospeed "In a direct injection system the available time for injection is significantly shorter during part-load, stratified charge operation - for example, injection times at idle are less than 0.5 milliseconds. This is only one-fifth of the available time experienced with conventional manifold injection. However, even in this very short time the fuel must still be finely atomized in order that it can create an optimal mixture in the brief moment between injection and ignition. Direct injection fuel droplets are on average smaller than 20 m - only one-fifth of the droplet size used with traditional manifold injection and one-third of the diameter of a human hair."
So an aftermarket system that can run direct injection must be able to have its injection timing (relative to piston/crankshaft position) adjustable and be absolutely consistent.

Once upon a time, most petrol heads would have suggested or actually moved to stand alone aftermarket systems. But recent engines and their engine management systems are so complicated that (as long as the factory system can be hacked for reprogramming) doing all the can be done to retain the factory system is probably a very good idea.
For cars built in the last 5-10 years, I'd need a very good reason to go aftermarket. Maybe for a race car, but that would be only for data logging.
When you see a built Ford XR6 turbo churning out 1000+hp (engine dyno, not guestimated) running a retuned factory system, you know things have gotten better

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-01-2010, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Two sets of 95mm bore forgies are headed to South Africa (still waiting on the rings for the one set of Camaro DI pistons that I ordered - there are currently only 22 sets available as parts within the entire GM inventory system...)!
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Full-Race 6-Speed Getrag 3.7 Litre 24v Milano; 1993 155 TS 2.0; 1999 24 Valve 3.0 916 GTV; 1995 164Q; 1987 Milano Verde; 1966 GTV Stepnose

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-01-2010, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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The stock Brera 89mm piston has this one weird notch on the one side, that I can not - for the life of me - quite figure out...

Any way, looks a bit like a stock 93mm GTA piston with those Teflon-coated skirts and short overall height! I had the new 95mm units made 1mm thicker on top, but the weights stayed the same!
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-01-2010, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Saved a bit off of the wrist-pin and saved a bit off of the piston itself - despite the increased bore!
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-01-2010, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Check out the weird steel inserts on the OEM Brera piston's top ring groove...
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-02-2010, 12:45 AM
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The notch is probably for balancing, or to clear an oil squirter

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-02-2010, 04:55 AM
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Wow, I wish I saw this post before, but since it's only been up for a couple of weeks, I haven't missed much.

First question- are you planning an aftermarket control system, or work with the original? If you are intending to modify the original (which is what I would fully suggest), the piston design is like it is to use the DI injectors to form a really cool stratified charge at certain times- which at the most basic level on DI engines is the cold start and idle (and when I (as in the engineer) say cold start, that's any sub 100F engine start where its been off for over 8 horus). We found that a split injection strategy can be used to give great stabilty, and really good combustion for very low emissions in a manner that the customer does not have any idea that it's happening.

Second- the controller- I honestly think that the Motec will have a tough time running this engine. Even assuming Fiat sourced the Marrelli DI hardware (which is quite good, BTW), the drivers for the pump and injectors are quite complicated, especially if the pump is on a cam that moves. One has to time the pump controls to within a few degrees every rotation for proper pressure control (and you are low on the peak pressure- while that engine may be calibrated to only 1700 psi, most of us run up to 2100psi right now). The next controller complication is that the injector drivers run at 65 volts, which is unique to DI.

I'm sure there is a hacker out there who has gotten into the original controller to modify it- within two weeks of the current SHO going into production, our controller/calibration had been hacked, and modified. Life will be a LOT simpler for you if you can use the original controller- hacking vs. the complication of making a pump controller and engineering injector drivers... yikes.

One last thing- all DI systems that I am aware of are high pressure pump volume limited. So unless you figure out a way to add a second pump, you will probably not be able to make more than about 400hp.

Good luck with the project- I've been working on DI for 4 or so years now- SHO, MKS, MKT, and Flex with EcoBoost is in production with my cal in in.
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-02-2010, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The notch is probably for balancing, or to clear an oil squirter
That was my first guess too Scott, but I was unsure of what else might be obvious. I think you nailed it.

Cool post Turbolarespider - thanks for the detail - you really know your poop on this stuff!

We're taking it one step at a time and will get to modifying the injection management at some point , I'm sure. A the end of the day, timing is timing - that part should be simple. As far as the fueling, we're still only talking injector-pulse - faster, yes - but still, just injector pulse-timing. UniChip has already done some of these (after all, diesel DI and JTS have both been around for a long time)!

For now we have taken on stronger, forged internals, a larger displacement via an increased bored and stroking the crank and then finally a slightly higher compression-ratio as a first step in the process. Dawie will also do some porting and experiment with improvements to the exhaust headers as part of this first phase! We'll just have Dastek do a UniChip for starters to get the ignition and fueling optimized.

There is a single (LARGE) turbo, 24v big-bore 156 project sitting off to the side that needs to get wrapped up by the time I get to SA in October!

Full-Race 6-Speed Getrag 3.7 Litre 24v Milano; 1993 155 TS 2.0; 1999 24 Valve 3.0 916 GTV; 1995 164Q; 1987 Milano Verde; 1966 GTV Stepnose
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