1986 Spider turn signals - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-02-2018, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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1986 Spider turn signals

I have a 1986 Spider Quadrifoglio, and Papajam's wiring diagram. The problem is that the turn signals and emergency flashers don't work. I think a bad flasher would have a solid turn signal light with no flash? There is also a black wire coming out of the steering column loom that according to the wiring diagram looks like it comes from the turn signal switch and looks like it should connect to a double terminal block on the fuse box with a white/blk that then goes to the flasher. This black wire has a female spade plug on it and it is hanging free. On my car, the white/blk goes from the double terminal block and the second white/blk to the rear defogger relay. So it is slightly different than the diagram I have. I tried the free black wire to the terminal block with the white/blk and it didn't do anything. My car has a manufacture date of 12/85, so is it possible I should be using a 1985 wiring diagram?

I also have some experience with wiring on Fiat spiders and this car is very similar in that the turn signal circuits run through the flasher switch. Maybe a bad push button flasher switch? I know it could also be a bad turn signal switch (very expensive), but before I start replacing parts, I need to find out where this black wire from the turn signal switch goes. And yes, the fuses are new, clean, and power to both sides on all circuits.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Jeff
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 03:54 AM
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Did the signals/hazards suddenly stop working? Did they ever work? Any previous work performed?

The 1985 diagram can be ruled out as the fuseboxes are different; no heated rear window relay in the 85.

Terminal E on the fusebox should have three wires on it; one black to the turn signal switch, one white/black to the hazard switch and one white/black from the flasher. If you have a white/black going to the rear window relay (I2), just disconnect it for now.
What I would do is determine if the loose black wire goes to terminal E on the fusebox. To do so, fashion a jumper wire with an inline fuse and connect one end to a power source. Connect the other end to the black wire. Does the fuse blow? If not, activate the turn signals. Do any turn signal lights come on?

Next test(s) based on the results of the black wire test...

Jim

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 05:28 AM Thread Starter
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Papajam, thanks for the detailed reply. I bought the car a few months ago and it had been sitting for several years but it is in very good original condition. It didn't run, missing battery, flat tires, etc. I got it running and the turn signals didn't work, or the third brake light and license plate lights. The first thing I did was clean the grounds. Your diagram helped me find that someone had switched the wires on the contact base in the trunk for the trunk lid lights. They now work. I don't know when the turn signals quit working but based on the trunk wiring, someone was trying to get them working. The wiring in the fuse box looks original and has a lot of old dust on it so I don't think they messed with it, but maybe this is one reason the car got parked.

I'll make up the fused jumper wire and try that. If it doesn't work, I'll try to take a few pictures of the fuse box and post them.

Jeff
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 07:17 AM Thread Starter
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I made up the fused jumper with a 5 amp fuse and connected to the mystery black wire. Touched to white/blk, nothing happens. No turn signals. Touch to a red 12v power, the red light with a triangle on the dash lights up and if I then push the button to turn on the hazards the red light goes off. In the pictures you can see the black wire coming from the loom with red, green, black/gray, yellow, and gray wires. This may help identify where it gets connected.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 10:54 AM
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Okay, then.
Fear not that the signals don't work yet, even during testing conditions; we are in the midst of ID'ing wires and performing diagnostics. Only after diagnostics are complete and we know what's wrong will the repair(s) take place.

The other wire colors next to the black wire are consistent with the wire colors from the headlight switch. So it would seem that the black wire goes on terminal E of the fusebox (the same terminal as the two white/black wires). And with the hazard warning on the dash lighting up, and then turning off with the hazard switch, the second white/black wire has been proven to go to the hazard switch as it should (and not to relay I2 as it appears).

Do you have a voltmeter or test light? Next is to test for voltage at the bottom (aka the cold side) of fuse #5. If no voltage, test for voltage at the top (the hot side) of fuse 5. Is there voltage? If yes, toss fuse #5 in the bin, clean the fusebox contacts and install a new fuse.

If there is voltage at the bottom of fuse 5, remove the flasher from the fusebox (N13, bottom row, 2nd from left) and test for voltage at the + (plus) terminal in the fusebox. If there's voltage, replace the flasher, if no voltage, repair the wiring from the bottom of fuse 5 to the + terminal of the flasher.

Jim

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, I have test lights and DVOM's. I already cleaned all of the fuse holders and put new fuses in. Have power to both sides of #5. So I'll do the other checks and post again later. Thanks!

Jeff
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I have voltage at the + terminal of the flasher (red wire) but it is on the right side of the flasher plug (looking at the fuse box from the front) not the left as in the wiring diagram. The power comes from a large red plug behind fuse 2. I can take fuse 5 out and it still has power to the red flasher unit but removing fuse 2 kills the power to it. See pic. Also, the red wire to the + terminal as shown on the wiring diagram is on the left side of the plug when looking at the fuse box front but on mine, it is on the right sideof the plug. You can see this also from the back in the picture. Fuse 5 has a red wire going to the back of the rear defogger relay, so it looks to be wired differently than the diagram. I don't think it would matter if it is powered from fuse 2 or 5, so I am leaning toward replacing the flasher???
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 04:27 PM
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May not be your issue, but at some point last year, some wires had pushed out of the back of the fuse box, probably when I had cleaned the contacts on the relays and plugged them back in. I needed to bend the little tang out of the connectors a bit and push them back into the fuse box. My turn signals stopped working but I could here the relay. Also, my heated rear window never worked once I put a relay in...I ended up finding a wire or two that had pushed out of that relay's spot also, and viola- I had a heated rear window, the turn indicator blinked and my turn signals worked.

Pull on some of the wires back there a little. They should not come out or be very loose.

86 spider Veloce
74 TR6
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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John533i,

That was one of the first things I did. Ford used to have a "wiggle test" as one of their first steps in their EECIV computer diagnostic charts and it applies to every car I've ever worked on. But thanks for the suggestion!

Jeff
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 02:24 AM
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Whether each wire enters on the left or right of the plug is not near as important as each wire going to the correct terminal on the flasher. I would confirm that the red wire goes to the + terminal on the flasher, blue/black to the P (Pilot light), white/black to L (Load) and - (negative) to ground.

As a final test to confirm the wiring is correct, you can pull out the flasher and put a jumper wire between terminals + and L in the fusebox. Signaling for a left turn should turn on the left side signal lights (they won't flash). Signal for a right turn and the right side signal lights should come on steady. Pushing the hazard switch on should activate all 4 lights.
If this is the case, replace the flasher and all should be well (with these circuits anyway).

Jim

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
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Since the wiring to the flasher plug is different on mine than the wiring diagram, I'm not sure what terminal the L is. But take a look at the pictures here and it may help. The hand drawn picture is looking at the flasher plug with wire colors coming into the back and you will see the test results. I jumped both hot wires to all other terminals with the turn signal arm activated and nothing happened. No lights, nothing. When I jumped to the top terminal it blew the #2 fuse. The second picture is the flasher with terminal numbers. The third picture is the back of the fuse box plug so you can see what wires go where. The only orange/white I can find on the diagram goes from the rear fog light relay to the rear fog lights. Also, what are your thoughts on why fuse 2 powers the flashers, not fuse 5?

Papajam, I hate to keep bothering you but I have to get this resolved. Thanks again for all of your help. Your help motivated me to subscribe!

Jeff
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Papajam, I may have figured it out. I just noticed that the wire colors going to the N25 rear fog light relay are going to the plug that shows N13 turn signals. I think these are reversed on my car and I'm chasing the wrong relay. Your thoughts?

I'm traveling for work this week and won't be back to check it till Friday. By the way, how many terminals does the turn signal flasher have? Is it the one pictured in my previous post?

Jeff

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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I've made some more progress on the turn signals...I think. According to the wiring diagram, the flasher unit is (as looking at it from the front of the fuse box) in position N13, or lower row, left. On my car, it is lower row, right. I know it is the flasher relay because I took the cover off of it and hold the contacts together and the left and right turn signals light up. The rest of the relays match the wiring diagram so it looks like the turn signal and rear fog lights are reversed in position as shown on the wiring diagram. The wire colors match the diagram, they are just in the opposite locations. My car was built in 12/85 and titled as an 86 so maybe there was a change? So I ordered a flasher and I hope it starts working because now I know the circuits are good all the way to the lights. I'll update this post next week when I receive the flasher.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCMelvin View Post
According to the wiring diagram, the flasher unit is (as looking at it from the front of the fuse box) in position N13, or lower row, left. On my car, it is lower row, right.
Oh, my! This could be an eye opener.
When you have a chance, could you please let me know if your fusebox has bullet or blade style fuses?
In the meantime, I'll start the investigation...

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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Papajam, it has bullet fuses. I also responded to your email.
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