Metal Throttle Link Ends make short/long rods too long? - SPICA - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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Metal Throttle Link Ends make short/long rods too long? - SPICA

One of the original plastic throttle link ends on my '74 Spider's SPICA system has a crack so I ordered 4 of the metal ones thinking I would replace the whole set.

They seem great and appear to be the same size as the plastic ones.

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My problem is that they do not screw as far onto the rods as the plastic ones did. The rods at their shortest are longer than they were.

I recently reset the idle stop screw with the factory tool and am not sure I want to mess with that. But the only thing I can think of to do is screw them on the short rod and make it as small as possible - and reset the idle stop screw for that length to just close the intake butterflies. Then see if that also provides enough room for the long rod to work with the metal ones.

Or, leave well enough alone and replace only the one plastic one that is cracking and keep the lengths of the rods as they have been and not change the stop screw.

Have other people switched from the plastic to metal link ends and seen similar issues - or am I alone on this?

1974 Alfa Spider
2010 Porsche Cayman-S (will trade for a 4C)
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 03:06 PM
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Not on the SPICA, but something similar happened on my '91. I remember I had to spend a bunch of time readjusting the rod lengths and the throttle stop.

On the EFI cars, the long rod from the firewall to the crank under the intake plenum has an adjuster in the middle. You can use that in-situ to shorten things if needed.

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
1974 GTV
1991 Spider
Former: 1987 Milano Gold
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 08:37 PM
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DO NOT (that's all the special formatting my computer can do, otherwise they'd be more) change the relay crank stop screws. After they're set with the factory tool, LEAVE THEM ALONE. Those are set to maintain the delta between the two rods by having the ball ends rotate in different arcs. If you insist on the metal ends (assuming they fit the balls correctly), you'll need to fabricate new threaded rods to match.

I recommend ditching the metal ends and stay with the OEM phenoic ends. They're fine and last a long time. International Auto has them:

http://www.international-auto.com/in...8&posid=852124

If you have a crack in an old OEM end, you can do a temp repair by using a plastic wire tie to close up the threads. Wrapping in mechanics wire will do the same thing.

John Stewart
74 Spider
91 164S

Last edited by Roadtrip; 01-28-2014 at 08:52 PM.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtrip View Post
DO NOT (that's all the special formatting my computer can do, otherwise they'd be more) change the relay crank stop screws. After they're set with the factory tool, LEAVE THEM ALONE. Those are set to maintain the delta between the two rods by having the ball ends rotate in different arcs.
I do hear that lound and clear.

When I used the tool, it was obvious that my idle stop screw had been a bit off and I was happy to reset it to the refernece point.

For the WOT stop screw, I found that the reference point did not in fact open the butterflies in my throttle bodies all the way.

I decided it was better to trust the idle stop reference point, set the short rod to have the butterflies closed there, and then adjust the WOT screw to have them fully open/balanced. This slightly extended the throttle range from the reference point. My understanding of the critical arc reference is really anchored in the idle stop and the WOT stop definces the upper limit.


I guess my main question here was to see if I was alone in finding that the metal end links did not meet the rod lengths (and I had somehow used the tool incorrectly) and my rods were set unusually short - or if others had seen the same issue.

1974 Alfa Spider
2010 Porsche Cayman-S (will trade for a 4C)
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Last edited by Robertsmania; 01-29-2014 at 11:29 AM.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 11:25 AM
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I have not used the metal ones but have a side question concerning them: What captivates them onto the bellcrank ball and if they are metal on metal what provides lubrication to prevent wear? To be honest, I've never had a problem with the plastic ones but it sounds that if you want to use these metal ones you'd have to cut an end off the rod and add some threads. That's not a big deal really but why should you have to do that to accommodate a replacement part that doesn't fit?

I'd get my money back.

Paul - 1972 Spider - (2)1991 164S's - 1983 308 - 2001 Discovery - 1997 F350
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Inside the socket area there is what appears to be a small wire/spring that provides the force to keep it on the ball. Not sure if they are prone to rust, wear, or other deterioration.

The vendor has a tip on the order page suggesting you lubricate them before installation - but does not specify what type of lubrication would be best.

https://www.centerlinealfa.com/store/2023

1974 Alfa Spider
2010 Porsche Cayman-S (will trade for a 4C)
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Last edited by Robertsmania; 01-29-2014 at 12:07 PM.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 03:08 PM
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I lube the metal and plastic ends alike with a dab of either lithium or Krytox.

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 11:01 AM
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ATF is an alternate lube for the metal end-links. Wish someone would remake the original plastic links that allow attachment on both sides for finer length adjustment.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-22-2019, 10:05 PM
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Just did this today. My long rod had new plastic ends and the short rod the original ones.

I ordered 4 of the metal end links from Centerline and I'm glad I did.

I started with the short rod. And yes, I couldn't make it short enough with the metal ends. They're not threaded as deeply as the plastic ones.

No big deal. I calculated that I should shorten each end of the short rod by about 1/4".
Easy. Leave the nut on the rod. Cut off 1/4" of thread on each end. Dress the cut end and put a good lube on it. Run the nut out to the end and past a few times until you can run it all the way off and start it again.

Install the metal ends and set the rod to length. Lock down the nuts to the end links.

On my long rod, it was not necessary to shorten the rod to use the metal end links. Center to center it measured 11 3/4".

But, be aware of my other findings!!!!
The used plastic end links on the short rod had some slop as did the new plastic end links on the long rod. And not just a little!! The metal end links have NO SLOP.

My car has never run better. Plastic ends may be okay for carbureted cars but with Spica, I would use nothing but metal.

It's Giuseppe's giubos, not Guido's guibos, on my 78 Alfas
REFRESH CONNECTIONS BEFORE REPLACING COMPONENTS
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