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What should I do about my vinyl?

4K views 32 replies 12 participants last post by  ryanSpider 
#1 ·
Hi Everybody,
so after my 71 spider was smashed up in a hit and run (see here: https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/ao...autobody-white-river-junction-vt-nh-area.html) I've decided to get the entire thing painted. So, I'm excited for the shiny new car.

There are four tears in the seats and I am looking for advice on what to do (see photos). It feels like a good time to have them fixed, but I am not sure what is the right way to do this and what is a reasonable cost. On the advice of the shop doing the repairs, I went to a seat guy that gave me two options, repair the four tears for about $1500 or get new kits and change out all the vinyl for about $2220. Or get the kits and change out the foam too for additional costs.

I see and advantage in just changing everything out because if I just patch the vinyl, it will likely tear again in the future. But is this is a reasonable cost? On the other hand, maybe I should value having the original vinyl - after all, I've had it for almost 50 years. Or I could just leave everything and save the money.

Any advice is appreciated.

thanks.

Ryan
 

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#2 ·
I suspect if you repair it it'll just tear somewhere else.

Those prices seem nuts, IMO. You can get replacement vinyl covers from Classic Alfa for both seats for $300 shipped. If it's anything like my S4, removing and disassembling the seats is straightforwards, and installing the seat back covers is reasonably easy.

The bottoms and headrests require a bit more skill as there's stitching and hog rings involved, but if you take the parts to an upholstery guy he should be able to do those for a few hours labor. Find the cheap upholstery guy by the tracks, not the guy who does concours restorations for Pebble Beach.

https://classicalfa.com/in083-spider-seat-cover-1970-78-black/
 
#4 ·
I suspect if you repair it it'll just tear somewhere else.

Those prices seem nuts, IMO. You can get replacement vinyl covers from Classic Alfa for both seats for $300 shipped.

https://classicalfa.com/in083-spider-seat-cover-1970-78-black/
I agree the prices seem high. I have purchased bottom seat foam (took one apart today, it was a rusty mess), bottom seat wire frame (everything was rusted even the springs crumbled), back seat foam (although my upholstery guy said they were not needed) and seat covers for both seats. About $850 plus what I will have to pay to install. Assuming he does not have to modify the pre-sewn covers, I can't imagine getting to the quoted $2200 total you received. The seat covers came from OKP in Germany. I am eager for my installer to tell me what he thinks of them. They look and feel good to me. I also ordered door cards from OKP and the only disappointment so far is there are fewer holes for the metal clips that attach the card to the door than the originals.
 
#5 ·
I paid an upholsterer $400 to cover two seats and the center console. At Classic Alfa upholstery kits are $134 and foam $146 per seat. I am very happy with the way they came out.
 

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#7 ·
Not that I ever doubt what Brian would say, I don't, but I went out to garage and looked at the old covers before they go to the landfill. They do have the seam he showed in his photo and the replacements I purchased from OKP do not. I should probably start a list of all the things that will not be "as original" as I put my car back together. :smile2:
 
#8 ·
gprocket's estimates are in line with quotes that I recently received from a reputable firm. I previously had a pair done for $200 by a retired upholsterer who worked at home but sadly he is no longer with us.
 
#15 ·
Put an inquiry to the local club members at AONE on the web-site. Someone has had good results and will be able to send you there. Don't rule out furniture re-upholsterers in your area. We have a shop on Cape with artisans who don't speak English and did our wing-back chairs for dirt cheap and fast. The chairs were showroom quality when done. Car seats of this design wouldn't pose any challenge.
 
#11 ·
Shop around, Ryan! Doesn't matter if we're talking tires, upholstery, or any other services. Get several quotes from smaller shops, less overhead. Check also to see if they're BBB members locally.
 
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#12 ·
thanks again to everyone for the replies on this. Can somebody advise on how easy the seats are to remove? If I want to take them out to bring to an upholster, are they easy enough to take out and put back in? Anything I need to worry about?
 
#16 ·
The 71's and 72's used Philips head screws and are easily stripped. Don't waste your time on them if they do, just drill them out, go to Ace Hardware and pickup a set of hex head screws. I had to grind a bit off the head for them to fit but they should be good for life.

If you're handy you can do the seats yourself. If not, take Uncle's advice and check with local furniture reupholsters'. The only tough part is the headrest.
 
#14 ·
It's like four allen bolts, then the seats come out with the rails. Pretty easy.

They can be a little hard to get to but a good selection of allen keys and some ball-end ones will do it. Biggest risk is scratching something up when you take them out of the car.
 
#18 ·
Allen heads work best from the hardware store . You might have to shave the diameter of the head only slightly on a bench grinder to clear the rail cahannel. ..use ANTI-SEIZE for sure.... Removing phillips is a job for the impact driver with two blows of a hammer. They do break loose other wise you WILL round out the phillips..A tool that is a must have in your kit. If you haven't used one , it takes no more of a blow that a 10P nail. https://www.amazon.ca/TEKTON-2910-2...ords=impact+and+driver&qid=1568658254&sr=8-20
 
#17 ·
That's good information on the Phillips head screws. Before you go to the mess of drilling though in case they are seized and rusted, spray them with some good quality penetrating oil first. Give them some light taps with a hammer and screwdriver and then wait for a little bit.
Then take a small sharp edge chisel and a hammer and position it on the head to knock the screw counter-clockwise. Sometimes this shock will loosen a frozen bolt like that as long as it's not corroded too badly. Or you can get yourself an impact driver with an assortment of Phillips and slotted heads. That almost always works for me.
 
#19 ·
"Allen heads work best from the hardware store . You might have to shave the diameter of the head only slightly on a bench grinder to clear the rail cahannel. ..use ANTI-SEIZE for sure.... Removing phillips is a job for the impact driver with two blows of a hammer. They do break loose other wise you WILL round out the phillips..A tool that is a must have in your kit. If you haven't used one , it takes no more of a blow that a 10P nail. https://www.amazon.ca/TEKTON-2910-2-...658254&sr=8-20"

You got that right. My impact driver (and bits) is one of my most treasured tools, although it doesn't get used very often. It's one of those things for which there is little to no substitute. I bought it when I used to have motorcycles to work on, with lots of phillips head fasteners.

Come to think about it Ryan, check underneath the car. IIRC, I think the ends of those screws protrude through the welded nuts in the floorpan, and that means you can hit the exposed threads under there with penetrating oil, also.
 
#20 ·
Hi Everyone, Thanks for all this fantastic advice. The update is that I successfully removed the seats. It was actually pretty easy, but in retrospect, I think that is because they had been removed last year when I had seatbelts installed. @divotandtralee great advice on that impact driver - it worked like a charm, didn't even need penetrating oil. (The only mishap was when I opened the top to reach in and get the back screws, the back window split. I suspect this might have been because it has been cold and I don't know if I have ever opened it when it has been this cold. It was over ten years old though, so it's time was probably up).

So, now I am trying to decide if I can replace the vinyl myself. @Gubi you indicated you did this yourself. Do you think it's something I could do and make look good? I think I would need new foam too, so there is that dimension.

Also, any advice about what to do with the rusty seat bottoms? What's the best way to clean those up?
 
#22 · (Edited)
So, now I am trying to decide if I can replace the vinyl myself. @Gubi you indicated you did this yourself. Do you think it's something I could do and make look good?
What is the condition of the rest of the convertible top? Not to turn this into a huge job that will fund your upholsterer's kids' college education, but having him do a top replacement as well as a seat re-upholster, may be in your future. I've never replaced only the rear window of a conv. top myself; an upholsterer can stitch in new plastic, but they usually want to remove the top from the frame to get it into the sewing machine, and by the time they've expended the labor to do that, it usually makes sense to just install a new top.

Also, any advice about what to do with the rusty seat bottoms? What's the best way to clean those up?
The best way is to have them media blasted. Most metropolitan areas have suppliers that do blasting and powder coating. You don't need to coat them - RustOleum is good enough - but that's the type of shop to search for.
 
#30 ·
Hey Everybody, so an update on this and a question. Thanks for all of the excellent advice. I found a small-time vinyl guy in Vermont and had the seats redone for about 1/4 of the price I asked about above, They look really beautiful.

Here's the issue now. The original screw heads are in rather bad shape and the screws are pretty rusted, so I'd like to get new screws. These are M8 1.25 16mm. The issue is that the originals have small head diameter to fit into the small tracks on which the seats fit. I can't find screws with heads that small - but I assume they must exist.

Any suggestions on where to find these screws?
(in looking for them, I managed to lose one of the originals, so now I need replacement, one way or another).
 
#32 · (Edited)
The original screw heads are in rather bad shape and the screws are pretty rusted, so I'd like to get new screws. These are M8 1.25 16mm. The issue is that the originals have small head diameter to fit into the small tracks on which the seats fit. I can't find screws with heads that small - but I assume they must exist. Any suggestions on where to find these screws?

I doubt you will be able to find the original, small head philip screws that Alfa used, but here are two alternatives:

- Buy generic philips head screws and grind down the od's. Put the screws in an electric drill and hold the heads against a grinding wheel. If the drill chuck mungs up the threads, thread them into a die to clean things up.

- Buy allen head screws. Their od should be small enough.

6alfas said:
ACE Hardware has some M8 hex screws that will work.
Gee, I'm not sure that hex head screws would work. While the hex might clear the sides of the channel, I'd guess that the socket you'd need to drive them would be too large.
 
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