1973 Alfa Romeo GTV - Restoration Begins - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #46 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-21-2016, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by IanB View Post
I'll try to answer some questions here:

4. I am considering going with forged rods, because they are so cheap, and they come with new rod bolts (300$ on ebay) but everyone keeps saying the rods are the strongest thing on this engine, so it has me thinking maybe I just put it all back together, with coated bearings, and run it as-is. Time will tell, and available funds will come into play. Wait longer = more forged stuff...sooner rebuild = less forged stuff.
I like using factory bits, but often not very cost-effective. If I was to use factory rods in a performance engine, I would:
-Magnaflux the rods to check for cracks. $30?
-Polish the beams to prevent stress cracks from starting. $100?
-Have the rods resized on the big end; likely are a bit out of round. $100?
-New rods bolts. $100 (parts + labor?)
-Maybe bush the small end of the rods if they are oversize. $100 parts and labor?

If you can buy all new stronger rods for the same or less, that seems like a no-brainer to me. And you don't have to deal with headaches caused by a machinist who did a lousy job, shop that lost your rods, or waiting for weeks until they get to your job. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing machinists or machine shops, but the availability of inexpensive H-beam rods really makes decisions like this easy for me.

Scott
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72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #47 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bulletpruf View Post

If you can buy all new stronger rods for the same or less, that seems like a no-brainer to me. And you don't have to deal with headaches caused by a machinist who did a lousy job, shop that lost your rods, or waiting for weeks until they get to your job. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing machinists or machine shops, but the availability of inexpensive H-beam rods really makes decisions like this easy for me.

Scott
Agree!! - Still waiting for the Crank to get on the bench at the shop. Already missed thier 'date' 2 times. And me being a small fish, they said they would just "call me" when it's ready. I anticipate I'll need to take a drive down there next week to encourage them to pick up my job.

Definitely thinking about a different shop for making sure my head has been decked properly, and then get all the parts balanced at yet again another shop. Just crazy what it takes to get your engine together (at least locally, and without calling Alfaholics and dropping 20k on one of thier twin sparks.)

Last edited by IanB; 02-04-2016 at 07:32 AM.
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post #48 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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Projects...projects...and more small projects

Sooo...Here is a photo montage of work currently in-progress or under way. I have been waiting about 8 weeks for the crank to get done, and in that time I have been working on the following:

Inside the car, up in the interior roof that I stupidly didn't strip before the blasting, so now I had to strip it mechanically.

Stripping wheels down to make them paint-able, and polish the lips/dishes.

LOTS of body hammering, heat gun, pressing and stretching metal. I had 0 experience with this, but now that I am into it about 4 months, I can make some things happen.

Enjoy the photo's ask if you have any interest or questions.

Roof inside...
Alfa Romeo - bearing wear and roof repair fail by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Rear end still cocked to the left, but heavily beaten on well.
Alfa Romeo GTV 1973 - body work and Wheels restoration by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Here it is when done..
Alfa Romeo GTV 1973 - body work and Wheels restoration by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

I think we can all remember what I started with...YIKES! *** was I thinking!
Rust....on everything after a bad sand-blast job! Previous Owner helping and hurting the car. 7/21/2015 by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Wheel work so far (only one wheel is in 'ok' shape, three more to go, and more sanding and polishing to go)
Panasport Wheel Restoration - 1973 Alfa Romeo GTV by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Wheel in daylight
Panasport Wheel Restoration - 1973 Alfa Romeo GTV by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

And I just called the crank-shop, crossing fingers....and Booyah! Crank is done...only needed polishing and the pilot hole done, total cost was 75$ out the door. Can you believe it!

Photo's to come of the work. We'll see how work goes, but I have been saving up, and I am about ready to make a BIG purchase at Spruel, so could be engine assembly time soon
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post #49 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 02:25 PM
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Rock and Roll!!!

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

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post #50 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the support

The support is great! Thank you!

Now as the band plays on...
A recent windfall from work, has me switching my motor dreams (yes the crank is in, and all that was needed was a polish and the pilot bushing fitted for a total of 75$!)

I am now thinking that the windfall money, needs to go to my welder fund, and my body panel fund, and we'll see how the next 6 months worth of filler, metal work, and welding goes to get this ol'gurl back into some kind of solid shape.

Wish me luck in the metal fabrication! Engine will need to be in the fall.

Test fitting some of my fiberglass to see how close my body is, and how close the fiber is...they are both a little off, but that's ok, press, bend, hammer, dolly, press bend again...at somepoint it will be 'straight enough' and it will get panel bonded up (and I am considering rivets too...)

Alfa Romeo GTam wide body test fit....trying to determine how my metal work is going... by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa Romeo GTam wide body test fit....trying to determine how my metal work is going... by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa Romeo GTam wide body test fit....trying to determine how my metal work is going... by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa Romeo GTam wide body test fit....trying to determine how my metal work is going... by Ian Bennett, on Flickr
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post #51 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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The welder purchase is in pending status!
Soooo...that means I needed to start cutting out bad steel that was cheese-cloth on the car.

Here is a piece I cut out of the drivers sill, and the rust found behind it, and what happened when I used some phosphoric acid to convert as much of the rust as I could.

The plan is to 'convert' as much as I can, then weld in new steel for area's that were compromised/swiss cheese and then seam seal it with some 3M stuff, then use a cavity wax (Nuxudol 700) to help keep it protected for my lifetime (cross fingers). We'll see if it all works, but I think I might as well take a shot at sealing it all up properly.

Enjoy the photo's, and the Klean Strip Phosphoric Acid at home depot is SOOO good compared to the specific products that are out there for this kind of work.

Panasport Wheel Restoration by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Test piece of metal for the phosphoric acid treatment

Rust repair Alfa Romeo GTAM reproduction by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Came out pretty nice before/after is below.
I'll get photo's of the treatment done to the actual metal I am attempting to 'stop/repair' on the car for the weekend.

Rust repair Alfa Romeo GTAM reproduction by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Rust repair Alfa Romeo GTAM reproduction by Ian Bennett, on Flickr
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Last edited by IanB; 03-10-2016 at 08:40 AM.
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post #52 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-28-2016, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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Floor Pan Repair Alfa Romeo GTV - The welder is here...

I am sure everyone get's excited when they finally get thier welder and are ready (mentally) to start 'putting the car back together' from a sheet metal perspective.

I was the same, however, after getting about being an honest 10-12 hours into learning how to weld, and working on my car extensively this weekend, I find I am woefully under-skilled! However, the band plays on and this is my project progress so far in a few pictures.

I decided to work on the floor boards first. And I am VERY glad I did this, as it helps learn on an area of the car that is not going to be inspected to closely. I am using all 16 gauge material (a bit stiffer and hopefully longer lasting than 20 gauge. And my thought is, in 40 years when it needs to be re-done again, I will either be paying for someone else to do it, or be giving the car to my kids to enjoy in their own 'welding' drama can start.

Enjoy the photo's of the progress.

Practicing
Alfa Romeo GTV - Floor Pan Replacement by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Before welding, you need to 'remove' right?
Alfa Romeo GTV Floor Pan Repair - two holes cut, many many more to cut and fill... by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

First attempt on the car (will need to cut out and start again!)
Alfa Romeo GTV - Floor Pan Replacement by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Final work before stopping at the end of the weekend
Alfa Romeo GTV - Floor Pan Replacement by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

I think we can all agree, there is a marathon to go here...stay tuned.

Last edited by IanB; 03-28-2016 at 08:17 AM.
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post #53 of 97 (permalink) Old 04-04-2016, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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As I continue to weld in new steel...I got thinking about my approach for seam sealer and sound deadening.
Anyone use Lizard Skin or the home made version of this same product?

Insuladd

It looks like the actual ceramic stuff that was developed for heat and works for helping keep sound manageable without adding tones of Dynamat into the car.
What are your thoughts on using a spray-able sound deadening product?
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post #54 of 97 (permalink) Old 04-04-2016, 09:32 AM
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I have used both the sound deaden-er and the thermal barrier Lizardskin. It did not do as good a job as the stick on barriers.

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread, now parts car status:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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post #55 of 97 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 06:49 AM
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This stuff works great. I've used it on my GTV and Berlina and like it.
The Eastwood seam sealer is also a great product. I put the original equipment type sound deadening mat Alfa Service sells on top of the stick on to finish off the inside. 7 sheets if I remember correctly. Even with the shipping from Germany it was still very price competitive but that was when the dollar was €107.00.
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The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #56 of 97 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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Great conversation about the sound deadening. Thank you for the help.

I am sure we have all been there, cought dreaming about the 'next stage' when you remember you are VERY MUCH still in 'THIS STAGE'....
Anyway, more metal replacement...this **** MIG welder is like a scalpel in it's precision, and it needs to be for this wormy SOB! (Ok, maybe not to wormy, but it is what it is...)

More work on the floors and the doors of course...

Alfa Romeo - GTV Floor Pans by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

This is the attempt at fitting a good chunk of steel for the front floor..
Alfa Romeo GTV floor pan replacement by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Old floor that was cut out (rightfully so, not even I could save this thing..)
Alfa Romeo GTV floor pan replacement by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Sill piece in-progress is being scribed/welded in and hammered into place.
Alfa Romeo - Sill Repair, Door Repair by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Sill being fixed after the bad section was cut-out
Alfa Romeo - Sill Repair, Door Repair by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Rear-Floor is finished
Alfa Romeo - Sill Repair, Door Repair by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Door 'holes' from previouse repair from an assumed 'limit strap' repair where the door swings open and crushes against the front guard..
Alfa Romeo - Sill Repair, Door Repair by Ian Bennett, on Flickr
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post #57 of 97 (permalink) Old 04-25-2016, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
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That door I showed before

More progress on the door, got these little stud welders with a 'head' on them. Modified a HarborFreight puller to pull the 'Head' of these little studs because you can't get behind these doors with a dolly and hammer them out. So these pullers are the only way to move the metal 'out' from the dent.

Blah...Blah...Blah....

Alfa Romeo GTV - Door Fix, stud welder and puller by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa Romeo GTV - Door Fix, stud welder and puller by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa Romeo GTV - Door Fix, stud welder and puller by Ian Bennett, on Flickr
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post #58 of 97 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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Fathers Day 2016 - Captains Log 12:15 pm CST - Ran out of welding gas and cutting discs....had to make the emergency run to Lowes to keep Fathers Day progress a success. No welding gas, but at least I could still cut out bad steel and make replacement pieces while I wait till tomorrow to get more gas.

So far....Also, I attended the AROC convention in Nashville TN. HOLY GOD...it was all to much honestly, 416 photo's will keep me looking back and all the great people.

Photo's

Alfa GTV metal repair - door, floor, hole repairs by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa GTV metal repair - door, floor, hole repairs by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa GTV metal repair - door, floor, hole repairs by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa GTV metal repair - door, floor, hole repairs by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa GTV metal repair - door, floor, hole repairs by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Alfa GTV metal repair - door, floor, hole repairs by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Last edited by IanB; 06-19-2016 at 12:01 PM.
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post #59 of 97 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 03:38 PM
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To my regret, I missed the convention when it was out here in California.

Looks like you are making some great progress.
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Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread, now parts car status:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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post #60 of 97 (permalink) Old 06-28-2016, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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The forced march on metal restoration continues

Ok, so this portion of metal repair I was not looking forward too, mostly because I had no idea how to do it.
well I tried a few times and failed at making this part with just hand tools, so I splurged and broke down and bought the following:

30" bending brake
30" Bending Brake

Shrinker and Stretcher pair
Metal Shrinker/Stretcher Set

With the 20% coupon's it was a good buy, although tax is 10% but what are you gonna do.
In the end I was able to get to the following:

Before
Window Repair Before Alfa by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

After initial fitting of the first piece and second piece after cutting out a section that was tim-wormed beyond saving.
Window Repair Alfa Romeo GTV by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

A little more massaging and tack welding, but ****, if you run into brazing (bronze) watch out, as that stuff melts faster under the mig welder!
Also splattering can be an issue too.
Window Repair Alfa Romeo GTV by Ian Bennett, on Flickr

Ultimately I am happy to have 'created' these metal parts and can see a LOT of uses for these two tools in my future.
Still need to do the same as this to the other window chanel, and the radiator support/front facia, and make complex shapes for the rear foot-well on the passengers side. Not to mention the metal work required on/near the windshield trim.

Working metal MUST be a skill you learn if you are rebuilding a car like this, and every single piece of metal you separate will have rust on it, no matter how well it was 'preserved'. FYI!

Last edited by IanB; 06-28-2016 at 11:50 AM.
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