Bob's Barn Alfa - Page 13 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #181 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-11-2015, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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Gigem, yep...I'm just being cheap.

Our experience with poly on the racecars has not been great. We go directly to heim (rose) joints.

I'd like to keep my teeth, so I won't be going there with a road car.

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

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post #182 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 12:34 AM
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Given the known issues with the FRAP upper control arm bushing, does anyone have experience with Poly in that location? I have that on hand; if its a decent substitute it'll save me the expense of another set of lower bushes to be used in the upper...yep sounds confusing.

Bob
Poly is [email protected]

It goes like this: Poly < Rubber < Rose/Sperical joints
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
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post #183 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 07:08 AM
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I have had polyurethane bushings from IAP in the upper control arms of the '88 Spider for about two and a half years and 15,000 miles. No issues at all. This car is essentially stock and driven to work at least twice a week, 60 miles round trip. Prudent use of poly suspension bushings makes sense.

Rich Hanning
'65 Sprint GT, '78 Spider, '88 Quad
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post #184 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 09:28 AM
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Given the known issues with the FRAP upper control arm bushing, does anyone have experience with Poly in that location? I have that on hand; if its a decent substitute it'll save me the expense of another set of lower bushes to be used in the upper...yep sounds confusing.
I'm assuming you're using adjustable upper control arms? There is some evidence that FRAP may have improved their bushes but The Received Wisdom suggests that using lower control arm bushes in inner upper control arm position work well. They fit and do work well. But they're expensive. Even with librication, poly bushes will at some point start making noise as lube goes away and getting new lube to them would be a problem. A friend looked askance when I asked about this and simply asked if I'd ever had trouble with the oem style inner control arm bushings? Not in 10's of thousands of miles over many years . . . That pretty much answered my question for me. Only problem was that nobody had the oem style bushes last summer. As luck would have it, I found a pair of oem bushes that I'd apparently had for a couple of decades at least. So, upon my friend Bob's-who-knows-all-things recommendation I went with poly bushes in the castor arm position and oem bushes at the inner control arm position. In my opinion, you can use the expensive lower control arm bushes but the stock oem bushes work very well and are a lot cheaper. Just sayin'.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series

Last edited by 180OUT; 08-12-2015 at 09:31 AM.
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post #185 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your replies.

The FRAP arms I have are adjustable. They are brand new...12 year old purchases. So, probably not benefiting from any upgrades done recently.

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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post #186 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 09:48 AM
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I'll intrude with thanks for the recent posts on bushings.

My winter project for "Supah" is to have all of the bushings changed to new.

Will do the standard ones.

Would like less road noise over rough surfaces.


Bob,
Avatar is the 68 Super, bought new.
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post #187 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Would like less road noise over rough surfaces.

LOL, you are clearly ahead of me. At this point, after 12 years of ownership, I'd like some noise over any surface...I've never driven the car except to steer it while its being towed around the place behind a tractor.

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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post #188 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 10:07 AM
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I should add that the FRAP adjustable upper arms have a dimensional difference from the stock arm in the castor-arm bushing position. Paul Spruell's site mentions this difference so, before buying replacement bushings. I'd recommend reading his information. Bob-who-knows-all-things-Alfa suggested that I use poly bushings (the only place he recommends, btw) in the castor arm position because it is apparently a high stress point. I ordered Spruell's poly castor-arm bushes (he had a good price) and installed them myself. Use lots of lube and a good vice with a big socket and they'll go right in. They're actually easier to put in than the stock bushings. The combination of oem inner arm and poly outer arm bushings work well. Everything fits and I have confidence that the inner arm bushings aren't going to fail.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #189 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 10:19 AM
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LOL, you are clearly ahead of me. At this point, after 12 years of ownership, I'd like some noise over any surface...I've never driven the car except to steer it while its being towed around the place behind a tractor.
LOL

I used to think that poly bushes made noise when dry.

Then slowly realized that the original ones would be designed to reduce road noise.

I was spoiled with the 101 Spider--it virtually had fresh everything in it. Quiet and smooth--nice ride with the 80 ratio tires,

Bob,
Avatar is the 68 Super, bought new.
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post #190 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 10:21 AM
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When I redid the suspension on my Montreal, the original inner upper bushings had walked out of the arms, shifting the arms to one side, causing them to rub on the steel pocket side. Perhaps the heavier engine was a factor? I replaced these bushings (and the caster rod bushings) with poly. No complaints so far, but the real test is likely to be over more miles than I'll drive it.
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #191 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 07:05 PM
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LOL, you are clearly ahead of me. At this point, after 12 years of ownership, I'd like some noise over any surface...I've never driven the car except to steer it while its being towed around the place behind a tractor.
Yeah, but if you make engine noises with your mouth, it feels much better....
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post #192 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Ha!

Going out to the workshop to give that a try right now.

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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post #193 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Purchased a small order from PMB for the caliper "O" rings. $16+ including shipping and handling for 12.

Purchased everything else, except the master clutch cylinder and brake reservoir, from Classic Alfa. Added in a trunk (boot) medallion. Came in at about $200 including $37 for shipping. I hope it all gets here before the last week of the month. Someone might ask, "why Classic Alfa?" They had all the small hardware I needed, and the pricing for some of the more expensive items was 40% less. I also prefer to buy from one vendor, generally, so I only have one vendor that I have to chase around.

But in the end, it was about getting all the small stuff.

Everything else I've purchased for the car has come from Centerline, IAP, APE and Jon Norman.

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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post #194 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 01:28 PM
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95% of my stuff has come from Classic Alfa. They are great. Often faster then getting it in the USA. I just try to make big orders to save on shipping...but not always convenient when you think you need that one last part to finish a task.
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post #195 of 425 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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I had a bit of a hiccup with Classic Alfa, the bank thought it was a fraudulent transaction. With 2 minutes to COB in the UK, we were able to get it cleared up and things shipped Friday. Made by "this much." !!

Finally defeated the evil clutch slave cylinder. Much cleaning fluids, anti-corrosion fluids, curse words and disturbed greasy crap was expended in the effort. A win a day, that's all I ask.

Bob

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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