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Anybody convert BACK to SPICA?

5K views 34 replies 15 participants last post by  samakijoe 
#1 ·
Has anybody taken an Alfetta that was switched to carbs and convert it BACK to SPICA? Just curious...
 
#7 ·
Reason I originally posted this was b/c I had seen an Alfetta GT for sale that had Webers, but also came with the original SPICA system that they had taken out (no clue as to its condition), so I got curious.
 
#12 ·
I don’t agree with some of the above. When I bought my Alfetta the SPICA had the typical fuel into oil leak so I bought a Wes rebuilt pump. The car runs fantastic. And starting after it sits for a while? first turn of the key. The local SPICA guru raced a car with SPICA and it made good power although he eventually switch to Weber’s.
All that to say you can make SPICA cars run great, even modified ones. Yes you’ll spend money to do right but that’s always the case.
Having both Weber and SPICA cars I think it just boils down to what you want. In the case of my 79 I just wanted to keep it original, cost be damned.
 
#13 ·
The more I read about SPICA and how it works, the more enamored I am of its engineering beauty. I currently don't own an Alfa (I had a Velocissima Edition '79 Sprint Veloce back in the early '90s) but am looking to get back into one SOON.
 
#16 ·
Only if you want “originality of US cars”.
But if originality is what you want, don’t forget the TA, air pump and rails, hp fuel pump, fuel pressure sensor, etc. and whatever extra smog stuff your state requires.
I personally wouldnt switch back due to the xtra parts, filters, fuel lines, more complicated. And if pump goes wrong, get in line at Ingram’s spica shop and wait.
 
#20 ·
We’re a bit mixed up. I’m saying spica has many parts and is more complicated. Weber’s are less parts, easy to get meaning less complicated.

I’m a geologist and I deal with engineers everyday. I know we think from two different sides of the brain. ��
 
#22 ·
We’re a bit mixed up. I’m saying spica has many parts and is more complicated. Weber’s are less parts, easy to get meaning less complicated.

I’m a geologist and I deal with engineers everyday. I know we think from two different sides of the brain. ��
It takes stones to be a geologist and own a SPICA... Both have their virtues..
 
#23 ·
I had (25-ish years ago) two '79 Alfettas with their original SPICA systems, a sedan and a Mille Miglia edition GT. Now I have a '79 GT that came to me with the original SPICA, but the pump failed soon after I bought the car and I then converted it to Weber carbs (the cost was about comparable to a Wes Ingram rebuild). So here are my observations:

1) As noted, SPICA works well when everything is maintained and set correctly - but I never liked the designed-in fuel cutout at 1800 rpm (descending) and cutting back in at 1200 rpm - in my experience this feature made the cars annoying difficult to drive smoothly in stop-and-go traffic. My current Weber car is easier to drive in heavy commuter traffic, but has a minor stumble just off idle. Slight advantage goes to the Weber.

2) My Weber car starts easily year-round, so not clear winner there. OK, it takes two or three cranks instead of one, big deal.

3) SPICA cars definitely got better gas mileage, 2-3 mpg at least. Not an exact comparison though because my current Weber car has hotter cams and Euro cast-iron headers, definitely puts out more power than stock.

4) Weber car has a more open and tidy engine compartment, easier to work on overall. Sort of relevant: the current car also came with the original smog air pump which made it impossible to service the little SPICA oil filter. After I ditched the air pump and bracketry and removed the little filter it was totally sludged up, that lack of previous service possibly contributed to the demise of the SPICA pump several weeks later.

5) What happens when Wes Ingram and his few apprentices retire? Who will fix your SPICA pumps? And just try, even now, to find a thermostatic actuator OR its aftermarket substitute (the Shankle Sure-Start) - both are unobtainium as far as I can tell. So that's the biggest reason I switched to Weber carbs - present and future maintainability.
 
#24 ·
I agree with all your points except 5. There will always be someone that can rebuild the pumps. SPICA is a quintessential Alfa thing, and before some says US cars remember the Montreal. As values for the cars goes up more suppliers provide parts. TAs are available (at a cost) ask me how I know.
I’m not biased one way or the other and am fortunate enough to have one of each.
 
#26 ·
Ok so after 25 posts, we have two "NO", for the original question of switching back to SPICA after Carb conversion.
 
#34 ·
I am a “YES.” My ‘78 GT was originally a California car, had been sold to Midwest, the Spica set aside, and a Megasquirt (?) Fuel Injection system installed. I bought the car (a failed BAT auction that we worked a deal on post-auction), with the plan to convert it back to Spica to get it smogged/registered here in CA.

So not carbs exactly. But a similar path.

It was not easy.

After a year of trying, I succeeded—or rather, Onofrio at Alfa Italia succeeded in re-Spica-fying the car. It took trying three different units before we found one that worked. But Onofrio had the car running nicely and smogged a week or so after I brought it to him (previous 9 months had been spent at another shop in Orange Co. who, after lots of promises and lots of $ said, “We can’t get it to run, we need room in the shop, come get it—and bring a tow truck”).

GOD BLESS ONOFRIO.

The Megasquirt system was not running right at all (couldn’t idle, all sorts of issues that needed to be sorted), so I can’t offer a drivability comparison.

The Spica Onofrio installed was a discard from a running car that had converted to Webbers; once Onofrio got it tuned it ran really well. I got in line for a Wes Ingram rebuild of the non-functioning Spica that came with the car. After another 9 months Wes was ready for the rebuild, sent him the unit that came with the car and didn’t work, and he had it (or similar—I still haven’t checked the serial numbers) back to me in what seemed like less than a week (!!). Onofrio installed the rebuilt unit—the rebuild cost over $2,000 to do, and looked gorgeous when it arrived—but rebuilt unit didn’t run any better than the used one. [shrug emoji] I’m told when properly maintained they’re supposed to be reliable. Hopefully it will last the 100,000 miles I always hear promised before I have to worry about another rebuild.

Find someone who feels comfortable working with the Spica system. It is not a simple job. And missing one essential step in the chain can have cascading consequences.

My only beef with the system is a faint waft of raw fuel that it seems to discharge (does anyone else have this problem??); it has my eyes burning after 15-20 minutes of driving. We’ve replaced some fuel lines and clamps, etc., but it persists. Getting ready to take it back up to Onofrio for another round of detective work...
 
#31 ·
I've never had a problem with the SPICA in my car in 3 years of ownership. Previous owner had it overhauled by Wes Ingram. However, the thing gives me the creeps since I know if it ever has a problem it will be a serious challenge to repair.

Only benefit I currently see (ignoring collectible value for originality) is for road trips. Over the summer I spent a week in the rocky mountains and I was able to find a local Ferrari mechanic who tuned the SPICA for the altitude.... I assume if I drove from 1000ft. to 5000ft. above sea level in a carburetted car I would at some point be stranded and need to pop the caps and re-jet for altitude, correct me if I'm wrong. Then of course there's always EFI...
 
#32 ·
You would not be stranded in a carbureted car. I have several carbureted cars (single and multi). I live at 5000ft and regularly drive to between 1500’ and 8000’ and occasionally to 11000’ with out making any changes.
Of course the mixture will not be optimal but they run just fine. I do change jets on my race car for lower elevations but that’s just because I’m shooting for optimal performance.
 
#33 ·
Interesting question, and subsequent discussion albeit a divergence

If I was changing, for whatever reason...I wouldn’t go Carb or SPICA. I would use throttle body injection, probably the Jenvey units that look like DCOE carbs. Best of all worlds: controlled injection and heritage look
 
#35 · (Edited)
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