V6 OE Starter - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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V6 OE Starter

Yesterday my GTV6 project ("Car of Many Colors" thread) got started in the garage, parked in the street of an hour while working on non-car things, then the starter would not engage any more. Fortunately there was enough incline on the street in front of my house to bump start the car. Did my every several weeks drive around the neighborhood, and went back in the garage. Starter still will not engage. Put a charger on the car for three hours today; still no starter spin.

When I move the key from RUN to START, there is a click in the engine compartment, so it's not the ign switch. Per my digital voltmeter, the voltage is good, and only drops about half a volt when I turn the key to START. So it seems like the starter solenoid is getting current, but the starter motor is not.

Unlike the situation on my NORD Alfetta, I can't see anything on the starter. If I remove the 2 manifold bolts that secure the starter heat shield, can I extract the heat shield towards the front of the car? If I get the heat shield out of the way, maybe I can see what is going on.

I don't want to get into a big disassembly project now, as I am at least a year away from starting to work on the restoration of the mechanicals of the car. I will be taking the engine down to the short block, and maybe pulling the engine then. But I want to keep the car running until then.

Tom Henneka
75 Alfetta GT (Original owner), 92 164S, 86 GTV6
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 02:21 PM
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Removing the stock starter is a royal pain. I replaced mine last year with a Brise starter and I posted about it. I think that Benament posted details before I did mine and Racingswim gave me some advice that might have been off-line. Ask if you need more info or if you want to borrow the indispensable swivel socket.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 02:58 PM
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" So it seems like the starter solenoid is getting current, but the starter motor is not"

What is supposed to happen is that for most starter solenoids, the solenoid gets power and an internal shaft moves/slides the Bendix gear toward the flywheel. After that happens, the starter gets power as the shaft reaches the end of it's travel, electrical contacts being closed, powering the starter motor itself (you do not want the starter motor to start turning before the starter Bendix gear is engaged in the flywheel teeth).

If the solenoid gets power but nothing else happens, this usually indicates that the solenoid shaft is hanging up, due to wear on it creating roughness or ridges.

Odds are that the solenoid is shot and needs to be replaced, and the starter itself is most likely ok. Been there done that.
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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 07-23-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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If I remove the 2 bolts, can I slide the heat shield forward and out, without removing the exhaust manifold?
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 03:32 PM
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The manifold has to come off to remove the starter. Not sure about the heat shield.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 08:41 PM
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Good job checking the voltage drop to the solenoid---this is a common issue on old cars of any stripe and can usually be cured by a starter relay kit. You should install one of these anyway if/when you replace the starter.

And yes, you do need to remove the exhaust manifold to get the starter out. You might be able to finagle the heat shield out of the way to do additional testing at the actual solenoid, but it would probably be difficult to get back in place in the unlikely case that the starter is OK.

You can always try the ol' hammer trick to see if you can free up the starter .

Chris A: '81 GTV6 rescued from junkyard, "GT" car/'86 Porsche 944 Turbo track/street car/'73 BMW 2002tii fun street car/'74 Jensen Healey Lemons Rally car!
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 09:13 PM
Del
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The hammer trick is what I used for a while with my Sprint GT when the solenoid would hang up as described above. I had a long rod, a hammer, and a stick. I used the stick to hold the key in the start position, and then used the rod and hammer to hit the starter solenoid to jar it loose and engage the starter. Then I would get back into the car and remove the stick, leaving the engine running. Actually worked pretty well, but eventually I had to replace the solenoid. Was able to do it without removing the starter.
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Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 11:49 AM
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Hi

You said

"....If I remove the 2 bolts, can I slide the heat shield forward and out, without removing the exhaust manifold?...."

No
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 12:33 PM
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I found this thread to be very useful when I did mine
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/ele...o-starter.html

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 01:52 PM
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A couple of pictures when I did it. I found a magnet on a stick to be helpful.

https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/8036353-post178.html

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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I have determined that my starter solenoid is not engaging. I removed the 6 manifold nuts/bolts and pulled the manifold about an inch away from the head. This allowed me to finagle the heat shield out towards the front of the car. Now I could check that I always had 12V at the BAT starter terminal (Yes) and that I had 12V at the solenoid terminal when I turned the key to START (Yes). So the wiring was OK.

It looks like I can remove the solenoid alone without taking the exhaust manifold off the car (if the 2 screws attaching the solenoid to the starter are not frozen). So I might just rebuild the solenoid now. I have rebuilt my Alfetta starter once and the solenoid twice (a quarter million miles on those). But for the restoration I am going to rebuild the GTV6 starter and solenoid anyway, as well as painting the exhaust manifold. So if the 2 manifold to downpipe nuts can come off easily (the easier one to access is already loosened), I may just bite the bullet now, and take the manifold and starter assembly off the car now and do the restoration of those.

Tom Henneka
75 Alfetta GT (Original owner), 92 164S, 86 GTV6
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 03:17 PM
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Tom,
be aware that you may need a shim between a new solenoid and your starter. There is an old thread about it. I have a rebuilt starter with the shim and I can measure it/take a photo if needed. The solenoid may not disengage reliably without the shim.
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Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the heads up. Another reason to rebuild rather than replace.

Tom Henneka
75 Alfetta GT (Original owner), 92 164S, 86 GTV6
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 04:28 PM
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I have one that was rebuilt and has only a few thousand miles on it but it was too close to the CSC headers which caused it get too hot and quit until it cooled down. I replaced it with a Brice axial starter. I will give you a good deal on it if you need it.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Parts Off

The manifold and starter are off the car now. The trick of using a magnet wand to fit the 17 mm socket on the upper starter mounting nut from the side, and then shoving an extension into the socket from the front, was a big time saver.

I will restore the parts over the next several weeks. I am only working on the 164 rear bumper this summer; I am about 3/4 done with that.
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Tom Henneka
75 Alfetta GT (Original owner), 92 164S, 86 GTV6
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