Temprature - is this normal? - Page 5 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #61 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 08:11 PM
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Checked my 76 Gt fan today today.....IT SUCKS...inward to the radiator....Never get over 180.
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post #62 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 08:11 PM
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I doubt it's anything to do with grill openings or adding splitters my car has its original radiator [re-cored] and original fans on a 40c or 100f + day and we get plenty of those here my car does not overheat let alone get near 100c or 212f.
So I don't think we need to redesign the car's grill or add an undertray. It has to be restricted air flow could be fan direction as horeswidower eluded too or restricted water flow as suggested earlier could be the thermstat opening and closing temps, the original flow design works very well for road use maybe racing can bring out problems.
I understand the principle of shrouded fans, GTV6's were not designed with them though. So we are no closer to an answer on this one!

Glen 3.0 GTV6 2.0 156 JTS
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Last edited by sportiva; 08-03-2019 at 08:38 PM.
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post #63 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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It's beguiling to be sure, but we'll get to the bottom of this together....also, I'm fairly certain the fans are spinning in the right direction (pulling) air, but I will check again. I haven't touched them since installation so I doubt they reversed themselves. Plus, they do cool things down once they come on.
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post #64 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 09:34 PM
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I think stock gtv6 radiator has plenty of capacity and right now I am using two aftermarket fans fastened through the radiator with a 3.0, S cams, stock manifolds (agree it’s not elegant but at least the fans are very light weight!). As I said in an earlier post I had no problems on a super hot day, even when extended higher rpm running in 4th gear at 4500rpm, including no overheating when I was stuck in slow moving traffic.

I tend to think that you have a blockage in the radiator. Did this start after the engine rebuild, and the radiator was done at the same time? Then you changed fans? FWIW I went back and re-read the posts for installing SPAL fans and it seems great modification. ***.

If the radiator was just done, and painted, is the paint too thick. I have seen that happen on a Buick.
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post #65 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 12:07 AM
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A word from Australia...
I live in Adelaide. It gets hot here. 35c and very low humidity (so poor air/heat conductivity) is common. 40+ happens too. I've owned Chryslers, GM, Japanese, etc. We don't rely on the cooling system. Those of us who tow add oil coolers. For constant driving in the heat we add one for the transmission and one for the engine.
I just did this for my GTV4 ('79 2 litre). For the GTV I bought an oil filter adaptor, added a radiator (like the old style central heater), bought 2 new 120w fans and mounted one on the inside and one on the outside. Inner pulls, outer pushes.
This has the effect of controlling oil temp directly and turns your oil into a cooling system. Also adds about a litre of oil...
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post #66 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 01:45 AM
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Gepetto's car does not need to be re-engineered the car has an issue with high temps during freeway driving.
So we need to work out what is wrong with the car as it is, and not adding components that are unnecessary for the purpose or the environment the car is used in.

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EX 1.2 Alfasud. 1.8 and 2.0 Alfetta's 2.5 Alfa75
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post #67 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 07:32 AM
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Maybe I missed it in a previous post, but did you cross check your dash gauge readings with a laser temp sensor gun? Dash gauges are typically not very accurate.

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post #68 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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So here's the chronology after checking my service records/invoices:

August 17, 2016 (3 years ago!) I had the original, factory radiator sent out for cleaning and rodding out. My complaint was the engine temp would climb quite high in stop and go, especially with the A/C on, in the summer. The fans would kick in but would merely stop (or slow) the engine getting hotter, but temp would come down when I picked up speed. While cleaning and rodding out, it fell apart (probably because it was ancient). So it was re-cored. I don't know who did the re-core or if it's EXACTLY the same as the OEM. At that time, a Milano cooling fan was installed as it was thought to be more powerful than the original twin fans. I can't remember details, but I don't remember being alarmed about it, so it must have been fine.

The car was basically in the shop the entirety of 2017 for the engine rebuild (it's a long story as to why it took that long). I got it back in early November 2017, and the outside temps were so cold, the engine getting hot was not an issue.

Fast forward to 2018 - this is where things get a little fuzzy. In spring (March?) I bring the car in to take care of some surface rust on the rockers. The entire underside ends up being steam cleaned and re-undercoated (it looks great!). Brake hoses were also redone, along with brake and clutch fluid flush. The invoice also says "replace thermostat" though I don't remember why that was done. That's when I notice the car seeming to retain heat on the highway. We change thermostat again (to a used one, to see) and there is no change. Especially with A/C on, the temp of the car won't cool much even when I pick up speed. When I turn the heat on, that helps cool the car down, but that's not really a good option in the summer.

In July 2018, I buy the Spal fans and they do a great job of keeping engine temps normal during stop and go. On the highway, I never noticed much if the car was retaining heat because I always had the A/C on, keeping 1 fan on at all times. Somewhere along the way, around September of last year, I notice that nothing has changed. Even with the A/C fan on, the engine temp started climbing while moving at speed. We changed spark plugs to cooler ones (no difference), we adjusted A/F ratio (or so we think we did), no change. In winter all seems fine with the cold.

[Of note in case it's important: in late August of 2018, we installed what we thought were low impedance stage 2 injectors on the car (to match the "modified" AFM and ANSA headers). Turns out they were high impedance. But before we figured that out, the car was driven for about 1/2 or 3/4 mile and idled another few minutes. (Only 3 cylinder were firing).]

Now, this year, it's the same. At speed on the highway, temp rises until fans come on, then temp slowly decreases. But any real load will also see the temp gauge go hotter (such as crossing the Goethals bridge...). Stop and Go the fans come on and cool the car back to 180. Foot off the gas and coasting is the only thing that bring temp down fairly quickly to 180, which is where the car would stay at the beginning of this story in 2016 (and before).
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post #69 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtrip View Post
Maybe I missed it in a previous post, but did you cross check your dash gauge readings with a laser temp sensor gun? Dash gauges are typically not very accurate.
Actually we did check that. Amazingly, a thermometer stuck in the overflow coolant tank shows the same temperature as the gauge on the dash.
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post #70 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 09:45 AM
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Dude, those fan shrouds are blocking off the upper 1/4 of the radiator fins!

That is likely your problem. It will be easy enough to test this theory by removing them.
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Chris A: '81 GTV6 rescued from junkyard, "GT" car/'86 Porsche 944 Turbo track/street car/'73 BMW 2002tii fun street car/'74 Jensen Healey Lemons Rally car!
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post #71 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
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No, shrouds are important as they do improve the airflow past the fan blades. Well known aero characteristics. Known as ducted fans. Examples are the huge inlet cowls on jet engines as compared to open blades, and they even work well for boat propellers, as on outboard motors.

The concept is well tested.
Yes, but the shrouds pictured force air going though the upper part of the radiator to make an abrupt 90 degree turn, which air does not like to do. There are no OE fan shrouds that look like that and completely block the backside of the radiator.

I am convinced that is a large part of the problem. You are effectively reducing the size of your radiator, which shows up at freeway speeds. The shroud probably is effective at helping the fan pull air through at low speeds, but I wouldn't sacrifice overall cooling for that!

Chris A: '81 GTV6 rescued from junkyard, "GT" car/'86 Porsche 944 Turbo track/street car/'73 BMW 2002tii fun street car/'74 Jensen Healey Lemons Rally car!

Last edited by cda951; 08-04-2019 at 09:57 AM.
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post #72 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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I'll test this by opening up the top which is all rubber flaps. I can either yank those off, or somehow temporarily open that up and see if it makes a difference. I'll try to do this today and report back.
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post #73 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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Lightbulb On the right track?

So I think @cda951 comments on the fan shroud may have gotten me on the right track. I bought some heat resistant tape and taped the rubber flaps on the shroud open (see pic). On my way to Rockaway Beach earlier, the temperature held steady on the 3ish mile stretch through the wildlife reserve (holding about 50mph). Still warmer than I'd like, but the fans didn't come on.

On the way home, I took the long way using actual highway. The fans did not come on! Temp still creeped up a little, but unlike in the past never enough for the fans to come on (at 194F/90C). Though, I could still tell the temp increased slightly as I pushed more on the throttle.* But, this time, when turning the heat on, it actually did lower the temperature a little bit. (Note: I did not use A/C at all AND on the way home, it was only about 78 degrees out.)

For reference, when in the driver's seat looking at temp gauge, the needle just barely moved to the right of the "5" at the hottest [about 192], and mostly covered the "5" at the coolest [maybe about 183-185?].

The next step is to do this to the lower part of the fan shroud - there are another set of rubber flaps that could use opening, but I'll need a lift to do that (I think). Once I do that, I'll report back again, and with a test of this in the same heat as previous days.


*This makes me suspect the timing might be off, even though it's the only symptom.
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post #74 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 10:24 PM
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Those shrouds are weird, and certainly appear to block flow outside of the actual shroud rings around the blades. Only the rings are necessary to improve the blade performance. These appear to be very poorly designed.
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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
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1994 164LS (~Q)
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previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 08-05-2019 at 10:16 AM.
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post #75 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 10:34 PM
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I’d be doing a lot of shroud surgery that looked too tight. 🙂🍀. If that doesn’t work get a new radiator. The radiator on my 3.0 in Seattle was being redone with slightly larger diameter core. The one in NJ is stock and works well enough.

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