Temprature - is this normal? - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #46 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Ambient temp was about 85F, and that picture was taken while I was doing about 50mph. (I didn't have a passenger to help me take a better picture at speed...) The temp doesn't cycle much on the highway with the A/C on - it sorta just stays about where it is in the picture. (Though I'll try to observe more closely if there's minor variation). In stop and go it actually runs cooler because the Spal fans are so strong.
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post #47 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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I want to add that just took the car out now, in the evening. No A/C but temp still rises cruising on the highway to the point when the fans come on. It’s beguiling...but at least we can rule out running lean.
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post #48 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 06:55 PM
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I want to add that just took the car out now, in the evening. No A/C but temp still rises cruising on the highway to the point when the fans come on. It’s beguiling...but at least we can rule out running lean.
Glad you were able to rule out A/F ratios with some troubleshooting!

As for the higher temps at freeway speeds, this seems like an issue of airflow to and through the radiator. Is it possible that your A/C condenser and/or radiator fins are clogged or all bent/flattened? Does your GTV6 have the stock front bumper and valence to direct air to the radiator?

The reason the engine runs hotter with the A/C on is that the heated air being shedded from the condenser flows through the radiator. Normally this shouldn't cause much of a rise in coolant temperature, but your car's symptoms do smack of an airflow issue. It might be worth blasting compressed air through the radiator from the engine compartment side to see if it helps.

if you are leery of your old York compressor (I am shocked that thing is still functional) anyway, it might be time to update the compressor to a modern rotary unit and replace the crusty old condenser at the same time. You may find that much of your problem is solved.
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post #49 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 06:55 PM
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Just a off the wall thought...the spal fans are fully shrouded in a way that the OEM fans or other aftermarket set up line my GTV6 are not, correct? Do you think that airflow through the radiator with the fans off is compromised? Do you have a Otherwise I’d say that the radiator has a blockage despite being refurbed. Other causes not so pleasant to consider. You never actually overheat. When it is cooler out you also had similar behavior?
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post #50 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 06:58 PM
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Thermostat - did that get swapped when you did your work? Some of the aftermarket ones are pretty crappy. Just changed mine because the car ran too cold. LOL
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post #51 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 07:08 PM
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Thermostat - did that get swapped when you did your work? Some of the aftermarket ones are pretty crappy. Just changed mine because the car ran too cold. LOL
I did the same in my '81, had an aftermarket "cold" thermostat installed and the engine took forever to warm up and got horrible fuel economy. Now it runs about 180-185 at all times.
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post #52 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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To answer everyone's questions:

I hadn't thought of an airflow blockage. I'm running stock bumper and valance. @Peter A the car is in the same exterior setup as when you had it, and I did change the thermostat (granted, it wasn't a new one that I put on, just a good used one on the shelf) with no change. I do have a brand new one from Centerline that I could try. I like the compressed air idea that @cda951 mentioned - I'm going to try it, too. Maybe something as simple as that is the issue.

@cda951 It's incredible, but the York compressor still works, and the A/C (Tropic Air) still blows quite cold. The other day, I actually had to turn it down...

Before the engine rebuild, I had the stock twin fans. They never came on while cruising on the highway, and the temperature stayed at about 180 no matter how hard I pushed, nor how hot it was. Stop and go in the summer was always an issue, but as soon as I started moving everything was fine. I previously had a Milano fan on it and it behaved the same before and after rebuild.

Next on the list, I suppose, is 1) check the timing (too advanced?) 2) thermostat 3) cooling system blockage (either air or in the hoses). If all these three check out, then it has to be the ANSA headers on the car. But if that's the case, it's still is perplexing. They are meant to improve performance when you're pushing hard - it's a big irony if they preclude you from pushing hard because they cause you to potentially overheat. *



*I never have actually gone into full overheat, but I've also not run the car on the highway for more than 40 minutes at a time, nor have I pushed it that hard.

**I did go from NYC to Allentown in winter, but it was a 17F degree day and the car struggled to keep 180F.
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post #53 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 10:49 PM
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I doubt the radiant heat from the headers is your problem. Do you still have your original twin fans or the Milano fan, The problem started with the change to Spal fans could you revert back to an earlier fan set up as an exercise to test if the Spal fans are the cause of the problem. do you have any photos of the installed Spruell fans that we can look at? I'm not saying the fans are the problem it is just not right that at cruising speed the fans are switching on. With the AC on one fan is hard wired to turn on and stay on regardless of temp the other fan should cycle as the radiator temp fluctuates.

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post #54 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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So here's pictures of the new Spal fans. One thing I have noticed is that they don't cool the engine as quickly as when I first installed them (last June, I think). The impetus for installing them back then was that the car basically couldn't be driven in any stop and go traffic with the A/C without getting very hot - over 212F, but not yet overheating (which is a problem anywhere in the NYC area). But, on the highway, the car was OK. With the new fans, I recall the fans only needing about 20 seconds to cool the car in stop and go before shutting off. Now it seems to take a few minutes...

Anyhow, there is a definite shroud, and the top portion are rubber flaps that, ostensibly, open up to let air flow through. At that time, I can't remember the car running too hot. Though, in October of last year I remember noticing the issue we're talking about here. We switched thermostat (with a used one) to no avail. New plugs too that are one notch cooler than direct replacement. No difference. But, in winter when it's cold the car seems to do just fine.

Today, on the highway, the temp would rise even on steady cruise until eventually the fans would come on. I tried turning on full heat and it had basically no effect (or very slight). The temperature rises more when the load is greater (i.e. pushing harder or climbing a grade). The quickest way to get the car to cool is to coast downhill (no combustion = no heat + cool air coming in cylinders).
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post #55 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 05:44 PM
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I think it is the shroud contributing to your problem because there is not enough airflow in the area around the fans it is all concentrated through the fan area so 30% or more of the radiator airflow surface has effectively been blocked, is it possible to fit the fans without the shroud as a test. The second photo shows the method of mounting the fans through the radiator fins I personally would not use this method.
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post #56 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 06:06 PM
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No, shrouds are important as they do improve the airflow past the fan blades. Well known aero characteristics. Known as ducted fans. Examples are the huge inlet cowls on jet engines as compared to open blades, and they even work well for boat propellers, as on outboard motors.

The concept is well tested.
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post #57 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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Shrouds are useful when the fans are on. These fans do a much better job than the stock fans without a shroud. But might the impact air on the highway be somehow restricted because of them? Perhaps that's the question...
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post #58 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 07:39 PM
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No, because for one thing, they are edge on, very little drag, but will straighten the airflow to better go through the radiator. For GTV6s, evidently there is not enough grill opening, and maybe too much underbody air pressure to provide decent ram air at highway speeds. It's not the radiator and fan that is the problem, but maybe not enough grill opening for the size of the radiator.

Perhaps a lower air dam would help to reduce the underbody air pressure, as is done with race cars, to enhance airflow through the radiator and down past the engine to under the body.
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62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #59 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 07:45 PM
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Iím not saying youíve done this, but Iíve wired in fans backwards. They were blowing out instead of sucking in. Creates some very bizarre behavior. Itís easy to check.


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post #60 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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The grill opening is pretty small, but it used to be enough to hold 180 at highway speeds all day long even with A/C on. (Alright, maybe 183F with the A/C on...). Still, I wonder if there's a way to get more air to the radiator. Or, I could try replacing the radiator outright (aluminum? Alfissimo also seems to have an OEM one, not a re-core).

But I think the next step is to check the timing and, maybe, replace water pump. And get a infrared thermometer and start measuring temps on radiator and in the engine bay.
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