1984 Maratona "Ran when parked..." - Page 51 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #751 of 1025 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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We had an excellent Thanksgiving, although a bit bittersweet. First time in 28 years that we didn't have our sons at home. Bit of a shock to the system. We chose to go out to dinner, something that my parents would do with us when I was growing up. We had an excellent dinner, just a bit quiet.

I had some high hopes of making progress, last weekend, on the 6. But, as usual, our local post office made a mess of it. Tracking info showed it was at the PO on Thursday, they miss marked it and I couldn't get them to correct the problem until this Wednesday. At least I have all the insulation, hole plugs and shims that I wanted. But, unfortunately, by then the car had been moved out for another project.

We were going to get rid of the Dodge vans, one worked faithfully for over 400K miles before indicating its lack of desire to continue. It's been "vulturized" for the current 2000 Grand Caravan that has become problematic at only 200K. I tried to get the local pic-n-pull to come and take them, but they won't even return the calls and requests for quotes. LOL

So last night we decided to go ahead and get the 2000 van up to snuff, smogged and re-registered. Both the Lovely Donna and I use it like a covered pickup. In a lot of ways it is far more utilitarian then the Ford F350 diesel crew cab dually that we have. Mostly because the F350 is dedicated to the horse farm, and seems to always be tied down either trailering or full of hay or...I missed picking up bumpers for the "Distraction" because the truck needed to serve its primary function instead of taking a trip to Berkeley. It's a bit hilarious that when I drove 1600 miles, round trip, to pick up extra Alfa engines, that I stuck them in the back of the van and didn't take the truck.

So that's a long explanation as to why I haven't made any progress. I hope to have the van going again tomorrow, and then the GTV6 will be back in the workshop. I did check it out, today, during the torrential rains (which are a relief from our recent chimney from hell experience) and found water in the floorboards. I hate sunroofs. Of course it's far better to find out now, rather than after I'd glued down the new insulation.

Bob
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. Deposit down on another vehicle...stop the madness!!!
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post #752 of 1025 (permalink) Old 11-26-2018, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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A couple of pictures of the Vintage Air v stock HVAC set up. This is a Gen II Mini. I'm starting to think I can step up one more size to the Compac. Given the expense of the system, what's another $50 to find out?

Also a gratuitous picture of a couple of my favorite things.
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. Deposit down on another vehicle...stop the madness!!!

Last edited by horsewidower; 11-26-2018 at 02:33 PM.
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post #753 of 1025 (permalink) Old 11-26-2018, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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I need to clean the whiteboard tray!!!

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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. Deposit down on another vehicle...stop the madness!!!
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post #754 of 1025 (permalink) Old 11-26-2018, 08:59 PM
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Good photos there... and considering your summertime temps, I might consider the Compact unit too, Bob. Lots of glass in that GTV 6 cabin, right? The extra capacity might be what you need, assuming it will physically fit in there. The best part of going modern with VA is that you'll never have the plastic heater valve woes, nor the OEM expansion valve either. I assume you'd go with VA components completely inside.

Suggestion: If practical, I'd try to maintain the function of the eyeball vents at each end of the dash. They are very nice to have on a really hot day, or a hot humid rainy day, where you need that cool dry air directed either at you, your passenger, or the side window to keep it clear. Maybe you can use a tee fitting off one of the unit discharge ports, to connect to the OEM flex tubing to each eyeball.

Regardless, I'm sure you'll have a really comfy system.
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post #755 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Back to the GTV6 this week. The Silver Pearl (2000 Dodge Grand Caravan) goes to a shop tomorrow. I can't figure out why it has a couple of auto transmission codes. I've become a parts changer to try and fix it (which is a particular irritant, I like to think I'm a mechanic, not a parts changer) and have run out of parts that I think will do the job. So, within reason, I'll pay a shop to try and get the codes to go away, and finally smog the beast. It's only got 208K miles, and the last one I had did 405K. So it should only be half way done...LOL

With the GTV6 outside, it's been a bit disturbing to see water intrusion on the floor boards. Thank goodness I hadn't installed the new jute insulation. I would have been a bit upset to immediately saturate the new stuff. So I have to figure that out.

I think it's the sunroof. It hasn't worked properly since I purchased the vehicle. It only retracts about 3". So I'm betting that the rear drains are not working. I'll search for some sunroof threads to figure out how to pull it out. It's a scabbed in replacement that was needed when thieves stomped the original in order to get inside and steal a radio. According to the PO. So, yet another thing to take out.

I can't wait to start putting things back together!

Bob

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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. Deposit down on another vehicle...stop the madness!!!
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post #756 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 02:57 PM
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My relative's experience with Dodge Vans was in the two they had, the too small trannys would get overheated and the fluid would turn bad, causing lube problems inside, evidenced by overheated/blued/worn gears/mechanisms, confirmed by after hours inspections by the Pratt and Whitney labs where she worked as an engineer.

Whereas, the Honda van drivetrain they had later was pretty indestructible.
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Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #757 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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The transmissions are clearly the Achilles heel of the platform. The rest of the vehicle works quite well.

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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. Deposit down on another vehicle...stop the madness!!!
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post #758 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 04:09 PM
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I gave up with my sunroof and I sealed it with DAP caulk before the GTV6 was painted. It is not the worst looking thing on the car.
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post #759 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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So

I'm home waiting for the penicillin to kick in and allow me to go back to work. Been a couple of days and I'm about stir-crazy. I wander out to the car to do something, anything. Start taking apart the HVAC mess, as I need a minimum of a heater until I put in the Vintage Air. Nothing really that complicated, other than dealing with the propensity of 34 year old plastic to break. Everything comes apart pretty easily, and I get down to the blower motor. Before I scab in my heater hookup (old heater valve has busted and I'm going to hook the core up with an electric valve placed in the engine compartment) I want to make sure that the system at least blows air. I hook it up to the power probe, no bueno...no whir, no spin, no movement. Bummer. A little tappy tap tap, while applying angry pixies, and it spins...joy, euphoria, ...ah oh, it stops. ****.

So

I continue to take the plastic surround apart, and pull the motor and squirrel cages out of the housing. Nothing looks like it's burnt or scorched, although one of the cages took a hit at some point, breaking off a couple of vanes. But still, no joy. Okay, time to look at the brushes, as the armature does not look beat. Prying with a small screwdriver...I shoot the clip and spring across the shop with such velocity that all I hear is where it hit, no idea where it landed. Despair

I call a buddy, who is down the street, also home sick but working on his MINI, and he comes over. We're trying to sort out what to do, as he has far more electrical acumen than I. He agrees that it doesn't look like the motor is burnt up, no scorch, no smell, and is a bit baffled, but admits that I'm screwed given the previous launch of necessary parts. As I'm rueing the arrangement...I notice the spring mocking me on the shop floor...and at the same moment, he notices the clip starring at us from the Power Probe case. Serendipity, in the extreme.

So we put it back together, and hook the Probe back up, juicing the motor for all its worth...nothing...but still no scorch or stink...I'd even gotten out my jar of Bosch smoke, just in case. So my buddy started wiggling the wires...whir, nothing, whir, nothing. OH, geez, we've been bamboozled by an intermittent lack of continuity in a wire that's about 3 inches long. SMH

Pictures later, when I've recovered.

Oh, looking for squirrel cage if someone has anything.

Bob
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. Deposit down on another vehicle...stop the madness!!!
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post #760 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 03:49 PM
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If this thread is going to go on about wires, I'll get some one else to do the reading.
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post #761 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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HVAC disassembly

This is pretty much self-explanatory. Remove the cable from the lever to the heater valve.

Care needs to be taken when removing the clips holding the box together. . the plastic is very fragile. I found that pushing up on the clip while trying to lever them off with a small screwdriver generally worked. Also, since they are applying tension due to the curvature of the clip, pushing the clip in while prying helped. A couple I flattened a bit with a ball peen. Still, I had a couple peel off some plastic. There are also a couple of nuts that need to be removed from the bottom front of the unit.

Then, it's just a case of vacuuming out the debris and continuing disassembly.

I could not find a direct match for the Bosch blower fan motor; thankfully it's back to working.

All the sealing foam had perished, so I'll replace all of that.
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. Deposit down on another vehicle...stop the madness!!!
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post #762 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 09:22 AM
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The squirrel got out!
I like the line from ages ago.
Although the cage is still revolving, the gerbil is dead.
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post #763 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle View Post
The squirrel got out!
I like the line from ages ago.
Although the cage is still revolving, the gerbil is dead.
In this case, the gerbil needed a pacemaker. (No wiring was mentioned in this statement...)

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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. Deposit down on another vehicle...stop the madness!!!
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post #764 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 02:32 PM
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No way that fanwheel will ever run balanced, or quietly! Typical old, dirty motor, right? Great photos with detail, which makes this post so valuable to Alfa posterity!

BTW Bob, what about the fit and retention of that small middle panel that carries your fan switch and temp control? Does it pop out or are the tangs broken? On Mike's car, that was the case, so I drilled 4 small holes into the side flanges of the panel, 2 top and 2 bottom. I screwed in 4 small round head wood screws, just far enough so that they would pop past the front face of the box, and retain the thing in the opening. I adjusted a couple screws to give it a tad tighter fit, but it stays in place.
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post #765 of 1025 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 02:37 PM
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I'll be closely following you on your HVAC conversion. While I've heard 'Vintage Air' mentioned quite a bit, there's also a company called 'Restomod Air' that I'm also looking in to for my GTV6 project. I haven't quite got all the measurements down yet... that's the important thing... what can you get away with stashed up under the dash.... Good luck with your HVAC conversion efforts!
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