1984 Maratona "Ran when parked..." - Page 27 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #391 of 1174 (permalink) Old 05-21-2018, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Graham, looking at the motion of a ball joint, and the potential for fretting caused by a fully threaded bolt, I chose to keep a shoulder to the bolt. I would suggest that there is a potential for shear. Given the looseness of the fit, I'm not happy about slop in the hardware. To do this completely correctly, I should have gone up a size in bolt, reamed the hole to just about a press fit. I hope to cure any of the potential movement due to the loose fit with the tack welds. My current thought is to both bolt the BJ flange with the hardware, and then do a small plug weld through the flange to the arm itself. Hopefully that will keep everything from sliding around. There is tremendous force here, and I don't want things moving around.

Belt and suspenders, belt and suspenders.
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

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post #392 of 1174 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 10:18 AM
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If you see shear at the bolt, you have bigger problems. In that type of bolted joint the bolt should strictly see tension, like all bolted joints of that design. The shoulder style bolt adds a stress concentration at the shoulder to thread transition as well.

And as far as doing it correctly goes, I disagree based on experience with bolted joints. The goal is to achieve proper friction to conteract the shear through friction alone; clamping force and surface finish lend to this. The bolt will not move radially if installed to correct preload (most easily and practically through torque, more accurately through strain or elongation but obviously not in a garage).

Where you are very much achieving your goal is the redundant use of prevailing torque fastener and red loctite and the tack welds (or safety wire if you had gone that route). Were the bolt to attempt to loosen for some reason (unlikely with a 10.9 torque spec on a zinc fastener), the prevailing torque nut and red loctite would keep the nut from rotating and maintain proper clamping load. That's prudent and logical.

All of that said...if you are concerned with alignment of the bolt in the UCA / ball joint, the shoulder bolt and tight clearance make a lot of sense. But as far as shear goes, it's not really a belt and suspenders fix since the pants it's attempting to hold up would be shear force, and that bolt doesn't see any - the joint does. So, the shoulder bolt is valid, but it's not really necessary or even a belt and suspenders style move.

I should add that I rather enjoy details like this, and hope you understand that I am just attempting to shed light on a technical topic. This is one of my favorite AlfaBB threads and I'm more than impressed with the work and decisions made on the car. These small details are fun to discuss for certain types such as myself
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Last edited by fourmotioneer; 05-22-2018 at 10:22 AM. Reason: last paragraph
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post #393 of 1174 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 10:21 AM
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I have always used bolts here, but have had them come loose on me once. Sounded and felt like a bad wheel bearing. Burned two of those up before I discovered the ultimate issue.

Lock nuts are important here. Although it can't fall TOTALLY apart, loosing the bolts would sure mess up your day.

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post #394 of 1174 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, gentlemen, for the insight. I always appreciate advice and participation.


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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

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post #395 of 1174 (permalink) Old 05-26-2018, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Whomever came up with the method of heating the bushing sleeve until the plastic melts in order to remove it, brilliant!!! Man that was easy. What was left in the sleeve either peeled right off or succumbed to a wire brush on a dremel.

I made up a couple of washers to help with getting the new one on.




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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

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post #396 of 1174 (permalink) Old 05-26-2018, 03:10 PM
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Liquid N2 or dry-ice can be helpful, too.
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post #397 of 1174 (permalink) Old 05-27-2018, 06:33 AM
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it has been my experience that all those plastic shelled bushings press out easy peasy.
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post #398 of 1174 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Well, the four-day weekend degenerated into "honey-do", horse trailer rehabilitation (tires, wheels and electrical...man my mediocre electrical skills are getting a work out), porch/patio building and way too much property maintenance. Other than the bushing above, and some painting...not much was done to the car.

I did have to purchase a $86 set of valve cover gaskets for the van, last time I tried to sell it to the pic n pull they wanted to pay me $136 to take it away. **** near doubled its value with that part purchase. LOL

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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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post #399 of 1174 (permalink) Old 06-01-2018, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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Let's see how far I get in June. I set myself a challenge of working an average of an hour a day for the month. So a minimum of 30 hours this month. That should get some progress on the project.

Bob
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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post #400 of 1174 (permalink) Old 06-02-2018, 12:22 AM
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Parts ordered, time to tear out the front suspension. I'll pull everything apart, de-rust and paint. I hope everything turns up by Thursday or Friday.
The "might as well's" kill you too, I see.

Several years ago, I pulled the my 70 Ram Air IV GTO into the shop for a brake job and tuneup. Next thing you know, it was off the frame...

Final result...

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72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #401 of 1174 (permalink) Old 06-02-2018, 12:29 AM
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Have enjoyed reading this saga horsewidower and pulling for you to get this fine machine performing like it should soon. Thanks for posting all the updates and photos.
My sentiments as well. Took me a few days of reading a bit here and there, but I just finished all 27 pages. I don't have a GTV6 but it's still a good read.

72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #402 of 1174 (permalink) Old 06-02-2018, 12:35 AM
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I ended up with VHT chassis and roll bar paint. I wanted satin, but the McParts store only had gloss. Not my first choice, but availability was a first concern.

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Mission essential supplies for me - always have to have some satin black on hand, along with flat/satin clear.
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72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #403 of 1174 (permalink) Old 06-02-2018, 12:40 AM
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My anti-grime, anti-rust OCD is killing my schedule.

Several parts sat overnight in a large basin of Supreme Clean. I rinsed them off and they are now sitting in Evaporust.
Man, I hear what you're saying on the rust and grime OCD! Cleaning and de-rusting is therapeutic, isn't it?

And what is this Supreme Clean that you speak of? My regimen is usually Simple Green followed by a blast or two of chlorinated brake cleaner, but always on the lookout for something new/exciting/different.

72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #404 of 1174 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the attention. I'll take a picture of the Supreme Clean bottle and post it.

We hit our first high 90*-low 100* this weekend. I attached the hose to my hillybilly AC system at the workshop...landscaping misters over the doorway. LOL

I spent hours and hours on equipment repair, but unfortunately nothing from the Alfa brand. So, starting the month with a 3 hour deficit of effort.
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread, now parts car status:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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Last edited by horsewidower; 06-13-2018 at 11:25 AM.
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post #405 of 1174 (permalink) Old 06-09-2018, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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"Best laid plans of mice and men..."

What I planned to be working on this weekend:



What I'm working on this weekend:



I could put the flail mower on the big tractor, but then I'd be replacing fence lines and gates. It's great that the Lovely Donna let's her young clients do farm work, but there is a cost...

I hope to swing a few wrenches on the GTV6 as I wait for a few things to dry on the lawn tractors.

Oh, and Super Clean:




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Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread, now parts car status:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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