Are my plug wires bad and if so would that cause stalling after the car is hot? - Page 16 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #226 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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New coil installed, distributor all clean and shiny, good signal, but now the car won't even start at all. Not even try to. It'll crank and crank but no ignition. Confirmed spark with my light, confirmed fuel pressure, it should be running but it's not. Interestingly my original ECU won't let the pump come on. If I switch it out for a spare the pump will come on, but no ignition. No clue...
Al suggested the entire EFI wiring harness might be fried.

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post #227 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 07:16 PM
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well.......that............sucks. I was hopeful that this problem was history. If you need a part, ask. I have lots of spares and I would like to see you driving and enjoying. All the best
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post #228 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 07:51 PM
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I have a complete FI harness gathering dust in my garage but it is probably from an 84 and it may differ from yours. It is a lot of work to swap one out. You can have it for a nominal amount if you want to try it.

Ed Prytherch
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76 Suzuki GT500
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post #229 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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I'm going to try deciphering the EFI harness and start testing every single connection. It's a massive jumble though and even with the schematic I'm still pretty lost. What I can't understand is why now my original ECU isn't working at all, but the spares are, but none will REALLY work. That has to be a clue, right?

And I tested the distributor as best I could. Connected my multimeter and checked for continuity - it beeps regularly when I spin it and the resistance is jumping all over the place. My meter also has a rev counter and I was able to spin to about 500 rpm by hand, and it seemed steady. Before, with the old coil, that was irregular. So again I seem to have resolved a minor problem but now have a bigger one.

What could I have done that is now preventing it from firing at all??? At least before it would start regularly.
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post #230 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 09:25 PM
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Since it's not even trying to light off, have we discussed the ignition control unit behind the left eyeball vent? I remember a post of yours last year on this, but did you ever install the later type black box as shown?

Sorry if I'm plowing the ground over again.
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post #231 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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I replaced the ignition amplifier with a VW/Audi piece but nothing actually in the cabin. There is a smallish black box that sits sort of adjacent and above the fuse box, but I don't think I've ever seen anything like that behind a vent. Maybe different in my year model?


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post #232 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 04:58 AM
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The ignition advance unit in Alfaloco's picture is from a later GTV6 with a Hall sensor distributor. My understanding is that the earlier cars have mechanical advance and do not have anything equivalent to the electronic box.
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Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
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2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #233 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 05:12 AM
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Sportiva posted the ignition schematic here http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfe...ml#post6989402

On this module the input from the distributor is going to pin 1. On the ignition modules for later cars with 6 pin connectors the input is on pins 5 & 6. Maybe the module that you are using has a different pin arrangement from the original and you need to swap some wires over to make it work. I understand the connections to the later type. Can you post the Bosch part numbers of both the original module and the one that you are currently using and any modifications that you have made to the wiring?

Ed Prytherch
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76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #234 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
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This is the box I replaced with the VW part, the number of which was provided by a few other bb members as a direct replacement. The original part would be hot to the touch even with the car off. It seemed to be energized constantly and would cause the car to simply switch off after about 10 minutes or so. Like I'd switched off the ignition. Different than the stall down it does now. I used the very PinOut you linked. And the car ran for a good while after making the switch.


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post #235 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 06:30 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, forgot the new part. No number but I believe I posted a link to the vendor. Not using pins 6 and 7, and again using the 5-pin schematic posted in the thread you linked, referencing another old 2-wire distributor car.


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post #236 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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This might be crazy, but could the voltage regulator be out of whack?

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post #237 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 02:31 PM
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I have one that looks like the black plastic one and the pin connections are different than the one in the diagram
Pin 1 - coil -ve
Pin 2 - GND
Pin 3 - Not used (Hall Supply)
Pin 4 - 12 volts
Pin 5 - from pickup
Pin 6 - connect to pin 5
Pin 7 - Not used

The braided side of your pickup should be connected to GND

I tested mine on the bench and that is how I wired it to make it work. I used a signal generator output instead of the pickup.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #238 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 05:37 PM
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I wonder if the ignition module that you have installed is not a direct replacement for the original. Bosch made a lot of these modules with slightly different numbers but I cannot find information about the differences between them. There is a good amount of info on the 0 227 100 124 in the Megasquirt forums as it can be used to interface a Hall pickup to Megasquirt and it is incompatible with magnetic pickups. Megasquirt users who have distributors with inductive pickups are advised to use a GM HEI module to convert the magnetic impulse to a pulse that is similar to that provided by points, Hall, optical, pertronix, etc.
Your ignition depends upon the signal from the distributor and your FI gets its signal from the ignition so if your ignition module cannot use the pulse from the inductive sensor then nothing will work.
I suggest that you try to verify that your ignition module is the correct one for your car.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #239 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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It's worth a shot, trying out your wiring. But to timeline my problem a bit, the car ran mostly fine for several months with the replacement amp wired as-is. The non-running started after I swapped the plug wires (to reference the original post topic). The car would run like a top for a half hour or so, then stall and die randomly fairly consistently once it was warm. Just as randomly it would start right back up and run as though there hadn't been an issue. I thought it could've been overheating plug wires? One of the mechanics I visited said the wires were not always to spec, meaning it seemed heat or even jostling them caused them to lose conductivity. They were the original plug wires... Swapped those, car stopped running for more than a few minutes, then more than a few seconds, now won't start at all. During the diagnosis I found the pickup coil seemed to be weak and I also discovered a wonky fuel delivery system which seemed to be solved with a new pressure regulator. I also dropped in the permanent fuel pressure gauge. So there's no one thing I can point to, with regard to installing or replacing a part, that seems to directly cause the non-running.

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post #240 of 302 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 07:38 PM
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The ignition modules generate heat and are usually installed with heat conducting grease on to a heat sink of some kind - maybe just an aluminum bracket. If the heat conductivity cannot keep up with the generated heat then the module goes into thermal runaway and dies. It may work again wen it is cold but each time this happens it gets worse until it dies completely. A higher ambient temperature accelerates all of this.

Bad plug wires will cause misfires and incorrect wires will be worse but I don't see either of them preventing the engine from firing and at least trying to start.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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