Hard Start in Hot Sun - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Hard Start in Hot Sun

Its back.......GTV6 hard start after sitting in hot sun. Had problem a couple of years ago, went through everything, replaced all vacuum hoses, ignition wires, cap rotor, plugs. Issue resolved, it came back unexpectedly the other day. The car had sat in parking lot for two full days under a car cover in hot sun. Had to crank like crazy, then it started, idling super rough but straightened out in minute or two. This on a car that can be relied on for a first turn start every time. No performance issue once underway. Please, any wit, wisdom or suggested ideas about cause from the on-line crowd?

Thank you in advance,

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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 07:12 PM
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Its back.......GTV6 hard start after sitting in hot sun. Had problem a couple of years ago, went through everything, replaced all vacuum hoses, ignition wires, cap rotor, plugs. Issue resolved, it came back unexpectedly the other day. The car had sat in parking lot for two full days under a car cover in hot sun. Had to crank like crazy, then it started, idling super rough but straightened out in minute or two. This on a car that can be relied on for a first turn start every time. No performance issue once underway. Please, any wit, wisdom or suggested ideas about cause from the on-line crowd?

Thank you in advance,

8oclock
I vote for humidity trapped under the cover messing with your electrics

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 03:21 AM
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I have the same issue with mine, I drove it to work the other day and got in at the end of the day and had to crank a while before it fired. I was leaning towards something like the thermo time switch getting hot and not firing the CSI, or maybe the other way around, firing the CSI when it is not needed.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 06:53 AM
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I have the same problem: a true cold start is fine, a true hot start is fine, but the in-between temperatures (like sitting in the hot sun) requires extra cranking. I was think my aux air valve may need adjusting...
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 09:51 AM
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I have the same problem. If I unplug the cold start injector, it fires right up, so I am thinking that the cold start injector is firing when it doesn't need to.

Michael Conrey
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 01:43 PM
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I have the same problem. If I unplug the cold start injector, it fires right up, so I am thinking that the cold start injector is firing when it doesn't need to.

Michael Conrey
Allentown, PA
This would explain why I also smelled a hint of gasoline in the air.

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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 01:56 PM
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Also worth checking to see if your coil or ballast resistor might be overheating. You might not be getting enough juice to the plugs to fire it up.

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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 04:49 PM
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Yeah I've had the same problem with difficult starting after parking in the sun on very hot days. So it looks like it is likely due to the TTS and CSI. If it is then it seems there are a few options:-

- the TTS gets hot and the CSI doesn't fire when it should
- the TTS stays cold and the CSI fires when it shouldn't
- the TTS is broken and triggering at the wrong temperature (would contribute to the above).
- it is a design fault

I always just put it down to the weather! No seriously, I thought it was due to the plenum getting hot, but armed with this knowledge I'll take a proper look next time - or ignore it and just keep cranking the engine on hot days.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-20-2016, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions. The CSI is checking out properly but a connector to one of the tabs on the coil seems to have been loose producing very low spark. Seems like the fix for now.

Again thanks for the interest and replies.

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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-20-2016, 07:21 PM
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I remember that with my GTV6's and Milano, you couldn't touch the throttle when the engine was cold lest you blow the plenum off (nah, don't ask me how I know this), but when it was hot, you could feather the throttle to enable a quicker hot start, according to Alfa.

Do you do this when the engine is still hot?

Del

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1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
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previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 04:28 AM Thread Starter
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GTV6 Starting Routine - over 29 years of driving the GTV6 I have developed the fail-safe habit of never touching the accelerator before or during the start hot or cold. I do turn the key on and wait 10 seconds or so for all the electrons to get lined up (or something like that, cosmic energy too!) then a quick crank, shut off, then second quick crank that always starts the car. Again, I do this cold, warm or hot, perhaps with a bit more precision when its cold. I've never blown a plenum off or anything dramatic like that. I often have wondered where that issue comes from. My guess is that drivers are used to carbureted or Spica equipped cars that do like an inch or two of pedal. I now drive a Spica car too and its an art to get the right amount of throttle to the system especially on a re-start when the engine is hot.

Thanks again for everyone's responses, I'll post a short post mortem when the issue is definitively settled.

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 04:38 PM
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Just goes to show you that end-users often cloud the problem with superfluous information (hot sun). I learned this in Information Technology support roles. People say the dangdest things that if you give any heed, will lead you down Alices rabbit hole! Example: "Computer just shut off when the lightening struck (but noone else affected & no power loss). Turns-out user kicked the surge strip power switch...Lol
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 05:34 PM
Del
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Is that a useful comment?

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 05:43 PM
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@ToonRboy are you saying that it isn't normal for GTV6's to be hard to start after they are parked directly in the very hot sun? Say over 40C/104F? This is the sort of temperature where mine sometimes doesn't start easily and based on some of the responses it seems that I am not Robinson Crusoe. I know that the TTS changes state at around 40C which seems to provide a hint. If a hard start in these conditions is abnormal then maybe I'll bother trying to fix it. I know mocking others is an artifice meant to get people to bite, but I am only looking for useful information and like to sort the wheat from the chaff.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 06:04 PM
Del
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I can only speak from my own personal experience with my two GTV6's and the Milano, for which all three do exhibit this trait, and that according to Alfa, a slight feathering of the throttle with a hot start will speed the starting process, the problem caused by a slightly incorrect intake mixture under those particular conditions due to the overall design parameters of that injection system. Using the throttle is a problem only with a stone cold start.

We have always lived with it since the cars were new, and otherwise have no problems. The 164s have a more precise system and don't seem to have this problem.
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Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 04-21-2016 at 07:01 PM.
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