flush coolant before storing an engine - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 05:36 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
sportiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newcastle Australia
Posts: 494
flush coolant before storing an engine

I Recently purchased 3lt Milano engine that had been shipped to Australia from America 15 yrs ago and stored it had not moved until I bought it. I pulled the plugs and sprayed some WD down the cylinders then some light oil and did a compression test 210-220 psi on all cylinders....good. checking the rest of the engine I noticed the water pump was seized so more WD into the thermostat housing the pump did not budge some more WD waited an hour and it still would not turn so I removed the pump. The pump cavity was full of rusty crap. I then poured a jug of water into the heater outlet a the back of the head it came out the drain plugs rusty I then pushed a piece of cloth into the block with a screw driver it came out rusty and gritty so I removed the left side head to find a combination of rusty thick mud at the lower section of the block and thick dried coolant crystals at the top. There is a small amount of corrosion in the water pump cavity but it should be OK, The block and liners are also OK. If I had not removed the head and cleaned out the rusty and gritty sludge I'm sure it would have destroyed every water pump I put on the engine so a hint for engine storage leave the sump full of oil then drain and flush the waterjackets
Attached Images
   

Glen 3.0 GTV6 2.0 156 JTS
EX 1.2 Alfasud. 1.8 and 2.0 Alfetta's 2.5 Alfa75

Last edited by sportiva; 03-05-2016 at 05:45 AM.
sportiva is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 06:11 AM
Registered User
 
NickyDeeNM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 190
Wow! That is gnarly *****. My Alfetta was stored with a half a tank of gas. The smell of varnish was putrid. God knows what chemical reactions I was putting in motion, but found that, finally, soaking fittings in acetone dissolved the varnish.

Nick
NickyDeeNM is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2016, 05:22 PM
Registered User
 
wutdhec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 773
Garage
The 3L engine I bought for my project had sat for many years and the water pump was similarly gunked up. I flushed the engine by putting a hose on one of the pump inlets and I think one of the rear heater hose ports too.

I did NOT think about removing a drain plug to check...actually I don't know where they even are on the block. I see a large slotted looking bolt on one side and I see some hex drive bolts near the bottom of the intake runners. Would I remove those to check?

Unfortunately I've already installed the new water pump (and timing belt), so it would be sad to have to remove them, but better now than sorry later.

Hector
'91 Spider Veloce
'85 GTV6
wutdhec is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2016, 07:25 PM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
alfaparticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 12,660
I am surprised that you were able to get the heads off with that amount of corrosion in the engine.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
alfaparticle is online now  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2016, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
sportiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newcastle Australia
Posts: 494
wutdhec... undo the 19mm brass plugs one near the dipstick extension from the sump and in a similar position on the other side it would be best to remove as much of the crap as possible in my engine was 1/2 inch thick around the liner bases.
alfaparticle.......... I was surprised how easy the heads did come off!!. And the head studs were in good order, I have seen some badly corroded studs before so I had a few concerns. When I removed the heads there was lots of gritty rusty mud around the liner bases that cleaned up nicely I sucked it out with the wet vac, so I will fit new liner seals as a precaution along with rings and bearings before I seal the engine ready to install it.

Glen 3.0 GTV6 2.0 156 JTS
EX 1.2 Alfasud. 1.8 and 2.0 Alfetta's 2.5 Alfa75
sportiva is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-02-2016, 03:23 PM
Registered User
 
wutdhec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 773
Garage
I was easily able to remove the plugs. I plugged up the lower thermostat housing opening and push water through from the heater hose port in back. There was a little sludgy stuff at first but then clean water coming out with a decent stream. Hopefully this means it's ok to proceed.

How much torque is needed when tightening the drain plugs on? On my block they were 22mm with an aluminum crush washer.
Do you put anti seize on the plugs?

Thanks

Hector
'91 Spider Veloce
'85 GTV6
wutdhec is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-02-2016, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
sportiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newcastle Australia
Posts: 494
The factory manual does not specify a torque figure you could use a new crush washer and anti seize and do them up tight
I have included a few scans from the manual the "water coolant circuit plug" is only mentioned once
And yes 22 mm plug not 19mm
Attached Images
   

Glen 3.0 GTV6 2.0 156 JTS
EX 1.2 Alfasud. 1.8 and 2.0 Alfetta's 2.5 Alfa75

Last edited by sportiva; 04-02-2016 at 09:59 PM.
sportiva is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-03-2016, 02:26 PM
Registered User
 
wutdhec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 773
Garage
Thanks Glen. I'll try to find the crush washers, seems like a good idea to use new ones. As for torque, I found a site that shows brass m14 bolts should be torqued down to 34 ft lbs. I'm assuming that's in steel, so I'll take 3/4 of that on aluminum and if using antiseize, another 3/4. That puts the torque at about 20 ft lbs. Probably overthinking this as usual....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hector
'91 Spider Veloce
'85 GTV6
wutdhec is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2016, 03:41 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
sportiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newcastle Australia
Posts: 494
Out came the liners and after a good clean inside the block I found a small but deep patch of corrosion on the inner wall near the 4th cylinder. The block is still usable but this corrosion would have eventually eaten it's way through the block. The block wall is about 15 mm or 3/4 in thick at this point and the corrosion has eaten about 5 mm or 1/4 in at it's deepest . Not ideal but still usable, so if the engine looses coolant into the valley in the future I will know what to suspect. There is no corrosion at the base of the block at the liner seats or the top surface so the top and bottom should seal without any issues. The corrosion is deeper than it looks in the photos
Attached Images
    

Glen 3.0 GTV6 2.0 156 JTS
EX 1.2 Alfasud. 1.8 and 2.0 Alfetta's 2.5 Alfa75

Last edited by sportiva; 04-07-2016 at 03:48 AM.
sportiva is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2016, 09:18 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 224
@wutdhec I've undone the drain plugs plenty of times over the years and never had a leak and always reused the same washers. Can't help you with the torque settings - like most of the non critical stuff I just do them up reasonably tight. Most probably I under tighten rather than over tighten them - I don't force stuff. Don't know if this helps much, but I don't think you need to over think it, it's pretty simple* to snug them up a bit tighter if they leak, much better than over tightening and stripping the threads in the block.

(*by pretty simple I mean that if the engine is in the car it's almost impossible to get a socket or wrench onto them without busting your knuckles or scratching your forearm on the manifold ).
tpalfa is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2016, 06:30 PM
Registered User
 
wutdhec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 773
Garage
Thanks tpalfa, being a novice at this I tend to probably be overly cautious since I don't have the feel of this stuff yet. I'll go with your advice of reusing the washers.

Hector
'91 Spider Veloce
'85 GTV6
wutdhec is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2016, 07:50 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Houston Texas USA
Posts: 702
Store assembled motors dry

Hi

You said "....so a hint for engine storage leave the sump full of oil then drain and flush the waterjackets......"

Don't agree with you about leaving the crankcase full of oil. The water vapor in the air (humidity) will condense into the oil, and stay there.

It will turn the oil into sludge, a slightly corrosive sludge. If the engine is to be stored in one piece it should, IMHO, be stored dry, no oil no coolant.

Bye
Milanoguy is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2016, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
sportiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newcastle Australia
Posts: 494
Fair point............ the oil in this engine had been there for well over a decade luckily there were no problems in the sump the corrosion was in the cooling circuit part of the block . The oil did have a very strong smell of coal tar the pistons and crank were unaffected and were relatively clean when I removed them
Attached Images
 

Glen 3.0 GTV6 2.0 156 JTS
EX 1.2 Alfasud. 1.8 and 2.0 Alfetta's 2.5 Alfa75

Last edited by sportiva; 04-09-2016 at 10:59 PM.
sportiva is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome