Rosso in 1966: Corsa vs Classico - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Rosso in 1966: Corsa vs Classico

So I noticed that in 1966, from the various charts on the internet, that "Rosso 501 Classico" was not used before 1969. What was the most similar red in 1966? Does anyone know what "Alfa 303 Rosso Corsa" or even "Rosso Cardinale" or "Rosso Montecatini" were like?
I am betting "Corsa" is close to "Classico", but I really have no idea. Maybe a body shop will have a set of the PPG color chips and will let me check them out. But I couldn't find the "Corsa" 303 color in the paint thread.
Obviously, I am considering what color to paint a 1966 car... ;-)
Carl
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintageveloce
So I noticed that in 1966, from the various charts on the internet, that "Rosso 501 Classico" was not used before 1969. What was the most similar red in 1966? Does anyone know what "Alfa 303 Rosso Corsa" or even "Rosso Cardinale" or "Rosso Montecatini" were like?
I am betting "Corsa" is close to "Classico", but I really have no idea. Maybe a body shop will have a set of the PPG color chips and will let me check them out. But I couldn't find the "Corsa" 303 color in the paint thread.
Obviously, I am considering what color to paint a 1966 car... ;-)
Carl

What model 1966 car; spider, coupe, or sedan? Personally, I rather NOT see yet another red Alfa....
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dretceterini
What model 1966 car; spider, coupe, or sedan? Personally, I rather NOT see yet another red Alfa....
It's a GT Veloce. I understand, butI like red. ;-)
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 07:35 PM
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AR-501 (see Ditzler/PPG #71818 and #71297; DuPont #8772) was available since at least 1965 (when the factory switched to "AR" color codes). Proof is here.

The older Alfa Red (aka "Racing Red" or "Corse" with factory codes KF-12924, KF-16815 and KF-22345, Italver #20, see Ditzler/PPG #71297) was used on Giulia G.T., 1300 & 1600 S.S., 2000 & 2600 Spider and 1300 & 1600 Sprint. It was slightly darker and browner than AR-501.

Cardinal red (KF-18850 and KF-8850, see Ditzler/PPG #71456) was used on the 1300 and 1600 Spider only.

Rosso Montecatini is AR-504 (see DuPont #C-9068).

AR-303 is cross-referenced to AR-501.

Hope this helps,

Ruedi

Last edited by tubut; 09-26-2004 at 08:26 PM.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 09:44 AM
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A friend of mine just repainted his 1962 2600 Spider in AR-303, the "Alfa Racing Red" during its restoration. Assuming that the paint supplier mixed the paint up correctly based on the Ditzler code, I must say that this is a rather "interesting" color. To my eye, it is unlike any of the other permutations of red, which are much brighter or more towards the orange side of things. The AR-303 appears to have some blue in it and is much darker. My wife's first impression when she saw my friend's car was that the paint looked like a nice "nail polish" shade (and she is a pretty car savvy woman). Ruedi's comment that it was cross referenced to AR-501 is interesting since to me they are world's apart.

It is a nice color, but I'm not so sure it looks good on a "big" car like a 2600. It might look good on a Giulia Sprint GT though. Best thing to do is have your local supplier mix up a couple different shades and spray some test panels. Ruedi posted a nice discussion on test panels in another forum a while back and maybe he can resurrect that...

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for the excellent replies!
I went to the paint shop today, and then to the PPG distributer.Unfortunately, these guys don't stock these old afa paint chips. The only one the distributer had was the AR-501, which is the ony one of these colors I have already seen. I'd really like to see the AR-303 Rosso Corso for comparison!
The distributer offered to sell me a pint of each for $71 each!
Any other ideas?
C
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-28-2004, 01:23 PM
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I'll see if I can find a decent photo of my friend's car that is painted AR-303 and I'll post it. Obviously, computer monitors will vary. I found one photo on my computer but it makes the color look a lot brighter than it really is, so I'll keep looking.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-28-2004, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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I have found several notes suposedly indicating that AR-501 and AR-303 are the same color!?
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/show...1&postcount=29
But I note that the official PPG guide shows them as different colors....
Has anyone seen any official alfa documentation on AR-303 vs AR501?

If these are really the same, I seem to be wasting my effort trying to find out the difference!
C
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-29-2004, 10:31 PM
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C,

What information do you have that shows them as different colors? I'm very interested in learning about any sources that (a) either describe the similarity or (b) describe the difference.

FYI, the cross-reference you posted above is from one of my spreadsheets. If I recall correctly, the paint code was not mentioned or included in the 1972 Alfa Romeo Color Chart.

Ruedi

Last edited by tubut; 09-29-2004 at 10:35 PM.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-29-2004, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubut
C,

What information do you have that shows them as different colors? I'm very interested in learning about any sources that (a) either describe the similarity or (b) describe the difference.
Rudi,
I have a copy of the ppg sheet listing the cross between the Alfa Romeo code and the PPG code. 303 and 501 have different PPG codes. Aside from this, I have no data. Actually the PPG sheet is pretty interesting. Is there any way to post it here?
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2004, 10:44 AM
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From the site of Wille Veloce (http://hem.passagen.se/arspider/RAM02.htm)
the codes of Alfa "rosso" are:
Alfa OEM code - Colour name - Years - PPG code #
x x x x Rosso Farina '61-62, 67 71290
KF-185504 Rosso Cardinale '62-68 71456
303 Alfa Rosso Corsa '63-68,73 71297
C-9068 Rosso Montecatini '66-69 Glassurit's AR504.
VW-AUDI "Marsrot"
4506 Rosso Chiaro '68-69 71726
501 Rosso 501 Classico '69-70,74-81 71818
4501 Rosso '69-70 71819
510 Rosso Carmen '71-72 72052
519 Rosso Zagato '73-74 72050
514 Rosso Semaforo '75-85 72051
534 Ruby red poly '77-81 72287
530 Alfa rosso Spider '82-90 72528
537 Rosso Venetia '84 72634
538 Red poly '84 72635 note
547 Rosso Cabernet Spider '87-89 73029 note
552 Rosso Bordeaux '87 73032 note
555 Alfa Rosso 555 '88-90 73151
130 Alfa Rosso 130 '89-94 73464 note
179 Rosso Vinaccia '91 73836 note

So, the difference should be in those two different PPG codes: 71297 for the "303 rosso corsa" and 71818 for the "501 rosso classico". Note the years: rosso 303 is reported as the older one.

But I've found a similar thread here:
http://www.alfaclubdc.com/superpnt.htm
303 & 501 seem to be the same...

Who can solve the problem?
ciao

- 1964 AR Giulia Sprint GT - 1969 Lancia Fulvia Sport Zagato 1,3S - 1971 Fiat 500 L
(Green - White - Red: the perfect italian garage!)

Last edited by GiuliaSprintGT; 09-30-2004 at 04:12 PM.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2004, 01:59 PM
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2004, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Does anyone have a car with the ORIGINAL paint: Rosso Corso AR-303?
C
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 02:36 PM
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Bumping this old thread. Anyone have some recent insight into the AR303 color? I’ve contacted my local PPG retailer and they can’t find the 71297 code for the 303. I’m interested in a slightly darker red with that bluish hue for my GTA-R project. Thanks!
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by PBalfisti View Post
Bumping this old thread. Anyone have some recent insight into the AR303 color? I€™ve contacted my local PPG retailer and they can€™t find the 71297 code for the 303. I€™m interested in a slightly darker red with that bluish hue for my GTA-R project. Thanks!
FYI, there is a period Glasurit color chart posted this thread that indicates AR-303 cannot be mixed. You're probably best off to find a somewhat more modern Alfa color (maybe AR-530, available 1980-91, see a not very good sample here) or any color you like.

Further to the discussion above, this thread shows the difference (probably not entirely accurate) between AR-303 and AR-501.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]

Last edited by tubut; 03-12-2019 at 04:20 PM.
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