For Sale 750 - 101 Spider Radiator NOS - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Arrow 750 - 101 Radiator NOS - Still Available! 8/24/19

For your 101 0R 750 series . This a new never used item, please see photographs. Note this is not a cheap aluminum copy. I believe these are no longer available. Was purchased for a restoration and not needed several years ago. $700.00. Prefer you pick up in San Fernando Valley or have your shipper pick it up. We can box it for $50.00 for shipping in lower 48 States. It is flat topped not crinkled. It is either factory later production for replacement or after market, either way NOS. We bought it for our use, it was not for a Sprint SZ, which was unknown at time of purchase. Feel free to read all the commentary, to determine your use.


Still Available! The gentlemen who said he was going to purchase did not do so. Effective 8/24/19 it is unsold.

Thanks

Skidmark
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Last edited by Skidmark; Yesterday at 04:19 PM. Reason: correction
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 05:22 PM
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I am interested if it fits a '61, 101 Spider Normale 1600

Regards, Alberto
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 09:26 AM
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You have a pm.

Regards, Alberto
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 09:34 AM
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According to parts number (allowing for Parts Catalog misprint of 101.20 which Giulietta when it should be 101.21 Giulia) this radiator is only for the Giulia SS. The position of the hose bibs would also support that conclusion.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 09:47 AM
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You are right, even though very similar, not quite the same. Thank you!

Regards, Alberto
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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Hello Alberto and Carl

The part number is as shown. I checked with International Alfa Parts. They told me that 750 & 101 Spiders whether Normale or Veloce all use the same radiator. I checked with one of our premier Alfa restoration shops. He concurred. He believes that it is not SS but is double checking it for me. He thinks the neck is smaller on a SS.

The part # is 121 as indicated on original cardboard on part

I will sort this out and further inform you.

Thanks

Jerry
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 01:07 PM
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My money is on a 1600 Sprint ....with the "21" corrected to "12".. all the other numbers match including the .01 on the end. These cars were few and far between so parts specific to them languished on shelves for a long time. If this was a SS it would have been on one by now. Just sayin'..
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Gentlemen

Here is what I know. Purchased from Alfa Ricambi more or less 20 years ago. Was for Giulietta Sprint Zagato full restoration. Was not required and kept in storage. Now selling off various items which there is no future plan for use.

I consulted two Alfa Restorer's. Same answer Giulietta Spider 750/101. Both Normale and Veloce.

This should resolve the self proclaimed experts, claiming should have been sold years ago hence not Giulietta, etc. etc.
One assumes there are those who recognize parts are kept and not used and things like NOS.

I know of no other around for sale. So if you need it buy it, if not do not buy it.

Thank you

Skidmark
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 02:27 PM
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Ouch.. no one here "proclaims" to be an expert, including the present company. The part number is enough to bring the application into question. If you want to guarantee the application then say so and be done with it. That will put all to rest. This part i know ..if it was intended for a Sprint Zagato it won't fit a Spider.. ask me how I know.

Last edited by divotandtralee; 07-12-2019 at 02:32 PM.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 03:19 PM
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It looks similar to my Spider 'original' radiator, but only the bottom hose spout.
That is where all similarities will end.

I could use the core, but it would be a shame break this one apart.

Until there is no photographic proof, divotandtralee is spot on with his comment.

If you are selling, the burden of proof is on the seller, unless no application claims are made, and here, they are.

Regards, Alberto
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 04:38 PM
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Even though they won’t self proclaim, I can proclaim both Divotandtralee and Carl750 as experts in most things Giulietta and Giulia.

Erik
'66 GTV racecar, '71 Spider racecar, '74 GTV street car, '71 GTV project
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 04:56 PM
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I just finished a 101 SS restoration and this radiator looks like the same one. I believe that the Spider uses the same radiation.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 06:06 PM
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Hi Skidmark and all,

First things first: hurray! … there is a nice original radiator that is brought here for sale, and I would even buy it if shipping cost to Europe and a massive amount on extra taxes wouldn’t make it so expensive for me.
Skidmark is perfectly correct saying that such original parts are uncommon these days, we all know that.

Secondly, we have to believe that persons reacting on a thread are sincere and don’t have the intention in any way to taccle the plans of a seller. As already was confirmed in another post of this thread, the people that reacted here before me have earned their stripes in Giulietta and Giulia topics a thousand times yet on this forum.

This been said, no I’m not an expert but I can reed Alfa parts manuals and I think that Carl can confirm that I have a reasonable amount of original Giulietta and Giulia catalogs from the 1955 – 1965 periode + original supplements to those catalogs.

We have a unique opportunity to find here an original 50 years old Alfa part with the Alfa number on the box, so my suggestion would be to give the honour and the credit to Alfa to determine through their books as good as possible the correct application for this nice radiator.

The radiators with Alfa number 101.21.31.041.00 were made for the later Giulia SS as in the Giulia SS parts catalog 1065 from 5/1965.
So finding now a NOS radiator is extraordinary but finding one with this particular number on, is also perfectly normal. This number existed officially from 5/1965 on.

Parts number 101.20.31.041.00 stands for the Giulietta SS radiator (probably a second version yet, see later).
This is in the Giulietta catalog 983 (4/1964)
When Alfa decided to go from the Giulietta SS to the Giulia SS they kept the Giulietta SS radiator number for the bigger 1600 cc engine . Probably they used, as they often did at that time, the remaining stock from the giulietta SS radiators.
This reflects in the early Giulia SS catalog 1016 from 10/1964 where the Giulietta 101.20.31.041.00 number remained the same for the Giulia SS radiator.
As mentioned before , catalog 1065 from 5/1965 ( only seven months later than the 1016 catalog !) shows a different number for the Giulia SS radiator: the 101.21.31.041.00.
Knowing the Alfa policy that a modified part always receives a new number , there must have been a change in the part. (dimentional ? material ? who knows?)

About the SZ radiators,
There is no reason at all to doubt that this radiator was bought for a Giulietta SZ about twenty years ago but it is also good to understand that twenty years ago there were no more new SZ radiators to be bought from the shelves from Alfa. One was happy at that time to find and adapt any NOS radiator, not in the least a left-over Giulia SS radiator. Couldn’t this be the case here?

The catalogs tell us that when the Giulietta SZ appeared, Alfa used the radiator of the contemporary Giulietta SS (number 101.20.31.040.01), this can be found in the red parts catalog 776 from 11/1961.
Later the SZ received an own Alfanumber (101.26.31.041.00 ) for the radiator and a new number was also given for the Giulietta SS radiator: 101.20.31.041.00
(Here again remembering the Alfa policy, there must have been a change.)

About the SS radiators,
This makes a total of 3 SS radiator versions.
101.20.31.040.01 ( at least untill 11/1961 for Giulietta SS)( and also SZ)
101.20.31.041.00 ( somewhere between 11/1961 and 4/1964 for SS )( SZ received 101.26.31.041.00)
101.21.31.041.00 (at least from 5/1965 on, and for 1600 cc Giulia SS)

About the Sprint radiators ,
For Sprint up to engine 1315.00400: 1365.80.802
For Sprint from engine 1315.00401 on: 1365.80.806 or 1365.80.808 (interchangeable and at least untill 4/1964, so probably all 1300 cc)
For 101.12 Sprint: 101.12.31.041.00 (In a supplement to catalog 983, I could find a note from Alfa to the dealers that a new radiator with number 101.12.31.041.00 was added to the catalog for the 1600 cc Sprint , starting from Sprint engine 102.32001, this must have been in the first half of 1962 according Fusi ) .

About the Spider radiators,
Giulietta spiders: 1365.80.807 ( at least untill 4/1964, so probably all 1300 cc engines)
Giulia Spider: 101.23.31.041.00 ( all 1600 cc engines)

This all stands of course only if we believe the notes in the Alfa parts catalogs and the parts number on that radiator.
A 100% check can only be done if other original and labeled radiators could be compared and measured side by side. But that would be rather utopian, no?
Skidmark is correct in saying that if you need it than buy it and if not than don’t , but after what I found in the Alfa catalogs, in my opinion it would be wise not to claim that this radiator was originally made for the Spiders and their Veloce version.
The crucial remaining question is whether the nice original late Giulia SS radiator should go to a late Giulia SS car or whether it could and should be used on one of the other models ?

Other ideas, conclusions or corrections are always appreciated.
Please know that I have no intention at all to harm anybody, seller , members or potential buyers.
I only gave my opinion just like the others do on this forum because we love the Alfa story and the remaining secrets that go together with it.

Rgds from Belgium,

Thierry
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 06:21 PM
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Skidmark, I will purchase the radiator.

You have a pm.

Regards, Alberto

PS. As usual, Thierry, thank you for the very concise and clever clarifications!

Last edited by aguirola; 07-13-2019 at 06:22 PM. Reason: PS
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 11:47 AM
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By the way, does the radiator have the "IPRA" logo on the top header tank?

There is a '63 Spider on BaT, that shows this detail.

Regards, Alberto
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