For Sale New re-built 1960 Lucas Generator - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-30-2016, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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History For Sale

Have at it.......

L'Alfista

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'60 Giulietta Sprint
'64 Giulia Spider Veloce
'65 Giulia Sprint Speciale
'71 1750 GT Veloce
'81 GTV6

Last edited by Chi Si Dici; 06-03-2016 at 02:09 PM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-30-2016, 06:37 PM
Richard Jemison
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Lucas Generator

To replenish the smoke, do you simply re-oil through the oil port?

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-30-2016, 08:25 PM
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I remember my early years working as a counter man for a very large BAP/Geon store. We kept these Lucas generators stacked high, in their own section. Those, and the funky Lucas starters for the Sprites and Midgets.

Seems to me that either you want an original car that you never drive farther from the house than the battery could handle to get you home, or you replace them with ANYTHING else, and keep the original in a box on the shelf.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
I remember my early years working as a counter man for a very large BAP/Geon store. We kept these Lucas generators stacked high, in their own section. Those, and the funky Lucas starters for the Sprites and Midgets.

Seems to me that either you want an original car that you never drive farther from the house than the battery could handle to get you home, or you replace them with ANYTHING else, and keep the original in a box on the shelf.
Why are the Lucas generators so bad?
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphil View Post
Why are the Lucas generators so bad?
"Why" is more political than technical.

England failed to maintain their manufacturing effectiveness, much like their grip on empire. The combination of heavy-labor-Union dominance and increasing government ownership of the factories produced a perfect storm of incompetence.

Lucas, who actually had, and has, a fair amount of competence got caught in the middle. Instead of pursuing technical brilliance (like Bosch, for example), they were instructed to produce large quantities of the cheapest possible components. Thus, every element in, for instance, a generator for a small, low price car, would have been chosen for its cost rather than MTBF.

In the end, their generators, starters,alternators, switches, etc would exhibit a wide range of failure modes. Field coils, brush springs, bushings, regulators all "let the smoke out" in random frequency.

I don't really fault Lucas. Had they refused to make crap, the labor government in that era would have simply replaced the directors and managers to ensure the maximum number of jobs.

I suppose one could build up a Lucas generator that would run a long time, but it would require fabricating one-off components at great expense, rather than just replacing failed components with new, but inherently flawed, Lucas parts.

Of course, a great many do run for a long time. It's just that the failure curve is pretty fat.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 11:08 AM
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Dici...

I'm sorry you have taken offense at what is really very normal fare for the BB. It is a Bulletin Board, not a paid-for classified ad in Hemmings.

My original post was merely to point out (primarily for humor) why a good approach to a perfect restoration is to have a restored, but known problematic, component on the shelf while driving around with a proven, improved component. Your example of DCO3's is a perfect example. Anyone contemplating ever selling their 750 Veloce should invest in a perfect set with all related components, but leave the 40DCOE's on the car until ready to sell it. Adding this comment should, in no way, impair your ability to sell your generator, nor are members of this BB somehow duty bound to remain silent unless specifically helping you to sell your wares.

My follow up post was at the request of another poster. My 20+ years in the Imported Car Parts industry has given me a real-world perspective on the subject.

If anything, being grumpy about the normal, and benign, commentary found on this BB might act as a deterrent to potential buyers.

But I totally wish you well in your sales.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi Si Dici View Post
DP....

Buyers buy........ those with time on their hand have commentary.
Yep. I'm retired, and a hobbyist. Wonder what percentage of the BB membership fits that description?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 04:18 PM
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Since this ad has gone completely OT then I will chime in. Threads like this are the reason that the unpaid ads on the Victoria Alfa BB turned into an announce only section. Please see the link below. It started with rules about not derailing ads, but ended up with replies being disabled. I like that people can post here without these restrictions - but only if the post is actually about the item and useful to potential buyers AND the seller.

Rules for posting in this section
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 05:51 PM
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BTW - this thread would have been entirely on-point except for the objection raised by Dici. My first, short, post was simply to encourage a buyer to obtain one of these generators toward a future attempt at "perfect" condition. This comment was on-point, and relevant. A poster asked for the source of the reliability issues, so I replied.

That would have been that had not Dici felt he "owned" the thread, and could control the posts.

It's a very rare "for sale" thread on the BB that doesn't draw some commentary, some of it tangential. When you consider that my post was in support of a Veloce owner having one of these generators, the objections seem to be what took things "off thread".

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 09:02 PM
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Ah. I have never thought a reasonable nature was desirable. More a dysfunction. Too much sameness to make life invigorating. The music and magic of tango is in the unpredictable and unexpected moments.

As I've often admired "Moderation is for monks. Take big bites".

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-03-2016, 05:18 AM
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Good grief.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-03-2016, 06:57 AM
Richard Jemison
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Quote:
Richard, out of curiosity. Did our payments for your cams cash out ok?
If you got them it did.

Yep, this thread is out of focus!

My friend Ed (alfaparticle) a English Electrical Engineer, was visiting this week, and my wife heard us talking over dinner about Lucus failure issues, and he spoke briefly on the subject. (he had just ordered a warm glass for his beer so it wouldn`t be so cold) which can be summarized by the comment that "there`s nothing wrong with Lucas parts that can`t be resolved by "taking them off and throwing them in the trash".
Then explaining the well known "Englishmen drink warm beer because of Lucas refrigerators!

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

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Only those around you are distressed.
Same with stupid"

Last edited by Alfar7; 06-03-2016 at 07:05 AM.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-03-2016, 08:37 PM
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As usual, no shortage of comments about Giuliettas or Giulietta related parts from people that don't own any.
I have Lucas generators on several Giuliettas that I drive regularly, no big deal, they work alright.
(Of course the Veloces have Marelli generators)
Never had an issue with Lucas components on a properly prepared car.
Silly to suggest that Bosch stuff (or anything else) should be installed on a 1300 Giulietta (750 or 101)
Especially on a 750, oh yea unless you're a racer ;-)

DB
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-04-2016, 05:14 AM
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........................and people wonder why some folks have left the bulletin board.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-04-2016, 05:50 AM
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Are we losing expert people from the board?

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke

Last edited by alfaparticle; 06-04-2016 at 06:39 AM.
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