Alfa Romeo Montreal on Ebay, Very Nice! - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 10:21 AM
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Hello Hannelore!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montigirl521 View Post
I own a german price list where the Montreal is offered with "extras optional: leather interior + sun roof". The seats look like original in the very perfect hand made like a profi is doing it (and they are old). Maybe I am wrong and the leather cover is from a GT 1. serie ???
Ok, did the seats in the "German leather seat option" and the "Bertone leather seat option" look the same? Are your Monti seats maybe copies of the official Alfa Romeo Deutschland optional leather seats? Just curious.

I'm slightly confused since I've seen many pictures of what is claimed to be "original leather seats", but none of them looked the same. Some were claimed to be "Connolly leather", others simply "leather" while others again looked like naugahyde- or skai-style car seats with no pumped up claims.

At least now we know that the red eBay Montreal (#5234) have naugahyde seats. In other words, fake leather. Fair enough, but pretty far from the almost mythical factory option.


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Originally Posted by Montigirl521 View Post
Generally I don't want to be arrogant or impolite - but for me this car is NOT worth 60k !
I agree, and certainly not $100k. Then again, if somebody pays $100k that's what it was worth at the time of the sale. Still, I would have a hard time justifying to a third party why it was worth more than $30k. It would take a lot of time and money to bring this one up to the standard of, say, Mike's blue Montreal.

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Originally Posted by Montigirl521 View Post
Hope you and family is ok?!
All is well! Quite busy at the moment after starting my own business in January. When I'm a millionaire I will come and buy your 145

Ins zwischen alles gute! :-)
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post #32 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post
Good detective work! I can see mountains/hills on the upper left hand side of the photo below - looks more like California than Florida.
The same picture and most of the description can be found here. The seller's area code is 704, which is North Carolina.
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post #33 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 10:56 AM
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Relevant to "what's it worth?"

I paid 29,500 for mine a little over a year ago. Some people might have said that I overpaid by perhaps 5k - 10k, but immediately after buying I got a couple of notes from guys essentially saying "which I had moved more quickly", at least one of whom had made a lower offer that probably seemed more in line with the market of the previous year.

I've now got about 60k in it, and have not yet tackled much of the engine bay. The reality of it is that a nice, presentable Montreal THAT HAS BEEN WELL MAINTAINED is going to cost this much. I think the day of the attractive driver for 20k is about 24 months in our rear view mirror. I got caught on mine because it appeared to be well maintained and had been looked after by a reputable Alfa mechanic that I know, but in reality a lot of stuff was worn out. It's all fixed now, and this car will drive for a long time without further chassis maintenance. Once the engine bay is cleaned up and tuned, it'll be good to go for a very long time.

60k, I think, is a reasonable price for a well-maintained driver that needs nothing to enjoy. If it has mechanical issues, rust, discoverable damage, then the price comes down because the costs go up.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #34 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 10:56 AM
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4th march car is offered for 24.000$, yesterday to see for 60.000$, today .. 100.995$ and tomorrow is 1st Arpril - then 1 Mio ???

Ha ha ha, can't stopp to laugh. What a discount, I should hurry not to miss this big special offer.


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post #35 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 11:53 AM
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71 Monti:
Thank you for putting the facts straight in providing real info. much appreciated.

Hannelore: You gave me a good laugh. I bet you can smell a bad one, or even a medium monti from far away.

What's worse, Not having a Montreal, or having a bad one?
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post #36 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MontrealMonti View Post
Hannelore: You gave me a good laugh. I bet you can smell a bad one, or even a medium monti from far away.

What's worse, Not having a Montreal, or having a bad one?
good morning,

well, to have a bad one is no problem - our start was with a bad one and got later a BIG investment of work and money (more worth than a 2nd car). But the price for a car must be realistic when I know that much money is still to pump in a car to make it safe and in acceptable condition for the owner. The first years when we used the car it was after a "quick" resto in shape(see photos of first resto) -3 (1 is perfect) just to have fun and enjoyment of this beauty. When the restoration started we said: one time nearly perfect that all the efforts let us no more thinking about any further restoration in some years. It needed many years to finish (some years we did not touch it by job or sickness etc.) than we spend weekends over years to restore, to buy so many new parts, cables, tubes, screws (shop had a red carpet for us because the car got nearly all screws new and the guy was smiling, hmmm). I was proud to help in many corners of Monti what helped Dirk to safe time for the big things. The restoration what we nearly did all time together let me grow to have a look for details like the windows, all chrome around the car, the interior etc. etc. I enjoyed it very much to be the third hand Dirk need - and this make the moment so great when we turned key first time and the V8 vrooom let beat our hearts faster. You should see our smile ! Later you see what you missed or made wrong, sure... Of course was this restoration not our profession, we were looking a bit with blue eyes in future: what I can dismantle I can also put together again - can't be a so big problem. Ja ja...

I never look down to people who can't repair anything on their car and let this job do others. Maybe they can do things I never learn - this makes it equal. But the connection to this car we have is written with blood from our fingers, sometimes lost here and there on sharp edges.

To own a Montreal - or any other Oldtimer - is always a love affair and no question of shape but the price must be in relation to the condition. In this red Montreal (I make a bet) is still much to invest, I don't believe that you just jump in and drive away for years without problems. Just the price and how it grew let my head shake like my hips when I was dancing Twist in the 60th. The price inflation of this car in a few days is ridiculous and let me think that the 24.000$ of march 4th was realistic of cars shape - but fast money can make some hungry.

Definitive, it is worse to have NO Montreal (in any condition) !

Just some less thoughts...
hannelore
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post #37 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 08:16 AM
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Well, to have a bad one is no problem.
Definitive, it is worse to have NO Montreal (in any condition) !
Well, at least that is expertly settled then. Thanks Hannelore.
Now I got to decide which of my two Fiat spiders must go to make space. . . .
I am curious now how, say in 5 years, we look back on a "$60000 buys you a mediocre Montreal" world. Wish I had moved in couple years back. Buy the best you can afford, and reserve a bag of money equivalent to the purchase price for maintenance seems to apply here too.
The sad things is that Montreals are so rare that one rarely gets to see one, let alone get an opportunity to drive a few to get a feel of what a bad one and what a good one looks and feels like.
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post #38 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 08:49 AM
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I'm still on the fence regarding "no Montreal vs bad one".

I'm not new to the antique vehicle restoration restoration habit. So, I know there are periods during the process where I get a bit swamped with "what the %$#* was I thinking?" I'm at that point now.

It's not that the car I bought was a bad one. It was driven in its life, and as I discovered later, there was some indifferently repaired collision damage that I didn't spot during the pre-decision inspection. I understand the concept of "buy the best one you can afford", but I also know that every vehicle that I might buy is a vehicle that someone else really wants to sell. They have their reasons, after all.

My position at this point may go a little counter to others, but somewhat in line with Hannelore.

If you buy a good looking car that appears to have been well-maintained, you will discover a world of expensive items that need doing, which will add a huge amount to the initial outlay to make you happy.

If you buy a car that is clearly in need of a total restoration, you can mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for the long road ahead. When you're done, 3 or 4 years later, you have a perfect car that you can enjoy for a long time.

I would describe the "bad" Montreal the one that looked good but surprises you rather than the stack of boxes that you know is in need of a total makeover.

I think I would rather have no Montreal than a bad one, using my definition of what "bad" means.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #39 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 09:38 AM
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Mr. Peterson,
Certainly appreciate your definition of a "bad" car, and you are likely quite close to the truth.
I think one extra factor is to taken into account before venturing into Montreal (or any other classic car). t's the questoning "which one is right for me" question. If you are capable to do the resturation and have the love for it and have the garage space available, then that tired looking car winking at you may well follow you home.
If you do not have the restoration capability yourself, no space to restore it, or enjoy the driving over the welding, then you're likely to overspend on the "buy the one you thought way best" Montreal and end up spending serious money later anyway, considering you can find a proper resto specialist with Montreal knowledge, and no driving for a good while. My answer? I like a reasonably good one which does not require restoration, but doesn't have to be perfect.
Let the search continue.
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post #40 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 04:03 PM
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MMonti,

Mainly I was just venting frustration. I had hoped that the one I bought was one I could clean up, fix a couple of things, and drive a while. The car has not been abused. However, it has been driven and no one is sure of the miles. It says 36,000 on the odometer, but who knows? Anyway, it's just the turn of luck that pretty much everything that can wear out was worn out. The list has been endless. I'm not afraid of complete restorations, and am equipped for it. I just didn't want this car to be one that required that much work. Darn it.

So, a "bad" car is like a "bad" cousin. He's good looking, charming, fun to be around, wants to come visit for a few days, but after a while you realize he never picks up the tab, drinks your good wine and scotch, and has announced that he really intends to stay a long while.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #41 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-04-2014, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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I still believe the car posted on ebay was a sharp car. Perhaps there were a few, okay several misrepresentations but it is possible with a good bit of time and energy = ($) this could be the next Montreal to break 90K. I don't understand raising the starting price from $59,995 to $100,000 though; perhaps just a way to end the auction. One price is close to reasonable the other, in this condition, would be a fantasy.
Mark
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post #42 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2014, 05:54 AM
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I don't understand raising the starting price from $59,995 to $100,000 though; perhaps just a way to end the auction. One price is close to reasonable the other, in this condition, would be a fantasy.
Mark
I don't get it either. Did he even have a bid at $60k before raising the starting bid to $101k in the "no reserve" auction.
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