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iicarJohn 05-29-2008 12:20 AM

Circuito delle Tre Provincie 1929 - 1930 - 1931
 
1 Attachment(s)
Sto cercando qualsiasi notizia sulle prime tre edizioni della gara automobilistica "Circuito delle Tre Provincie" disputate a Porretta nella zona vicino a Bologna.

I Circuito delle Tre Provincie 1 Settembre 1929
II Circuito delle Tre Provincie 10 Agosto 1930
III Circuito delle Tre Provincie 9 Agosto 1931

Sarebbe bello avere anche i elenchi di iscrizioni. Grazie!


I am seeking any information whatsoever about the first three runnings of the "Circuit of Three Provinces", held at Porretta (near Bologna) in 1929, 1930 and 1931. Entry lists would be great! Quite a number of Alfa Romeo cars raced there. Thanks!

Update note: .pdf file version of this .doc file is below, in posting #4

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

[email protected]

carlo 06-02-2008 06:52 AM

John,

sorry that I couldn't find the time to respond earlier:mad:

I remember a discussion at the TNF where the circuito delle tre province was also touched: Atlas F1 Bulletin Board - Old Italian tracks
And here: Atlas F1 Bulletin Board - Old Italian tracks

Here is a link to gdecarli's site: CIRCUITI - TRACKS
He collected all availiable infos about the track.

And I saw a photo of Mario Tadini in his Alfa in Angela Cherrett's book about the 6C1500, 1750, 1900.
On page 159 we see the 1750SS of Tadini underneath a banner reading "Automobile Club Bologna Circuito Delle Tre Provincie (Coppa Porretta) Porretta 1.9.1929". He finished third and surely it's interesting to note that his car carried #33.

What I found most interesting about the 1931 edition of the race was that this was Enzo Ferrari's last race. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
In 1931 Enzo participated in two events, in the Bobbio-Monte Penice race on June 14 and in that race on the circuito delle tre province in August.
Reason for him to retire from active driving was the birth of his son Dino in January 1932.
More photos of the event can be found in La Scuderia Ferrari 1929-1939 by Orsini, Zagari. See p22 for a photo of Ferrari-Verdelli and on p111 there's a photo of 1931 winner Nuvolari with his Alfa 1750. He has beaten Enzo Ferrari in the new 8C2300!

And these are the pictures I had somewhere in my files...
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8...eprogt6.th.jpg

Here is Enzo with the new 8C:)
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7...eproos3.th.jpg

It seems that stater lists or detailed results are very hard to find, at least for me, but I'll keep my eyes open for more infos ...

Best regards
Ciao Carlo:cool:

dretceterini 06-04-2008 11:13 AM

I've checked my records, and have nothing of any value...sorry

iicarJohn 06-05-2008 02:58 PM

Aggiunto .... Attachment added
 
1 Attachment(s)
Ho collegato un elenco (formatto MS-Word) al messaggio iniziale. Non ce fretta per me. Sarebbe bello sentire qualcosa anche dopo di qualche anno.

I have added an attachment to the initial posting that shows the bit of data collected thus far. Most has been in my files for more than 10 years but there is much more out there I am sure!

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

Edit ... Aggiunto anche qui sotto nel formatto .pdf, leggibile con "Adobe Reader", gratis da Adobe

iicarJohn 08-30-2008 06:25 PM

Arcangeli - vincitore 1930
 
While looking for something else, I came across a very nice image of Arcangeli sitting in his winning Alfa Romeo 6C1750. It is in Fusi-Slater's "The 6C1750 Alfa Romeo" (English language edition of 1968) - Plate 49.

ar51matta 09-12-2008 01:15 PM

John,

I own the 6C of Gaspare Bona and I am loocking for everything about this car. I have a picture from the 1931 Bobbio-Penice , TO15515 licence plate, but cannot read the starting number on the hood. A starting list would be very helpfull.

Martin

iicarJohn 09-13-2008 02:08 AM

Gaspare Bona
 
Hi Martin,

This is interesting. A couple of years ago, a friend did research on a block of Torino license plates from 1934 onwards for a time while looking for history on a certain Alfa Romeo 8C. He took notes about other Alfa Romeo cars he noticed during his search. As a result, we know that Gaspare Bona owned a 1930 6C1750GS, with chassis N. 8513xxx but the Torino plate you mention was issued 1929 so could not have been issued to that particular car. It must have been on an earlier car. I have not researched the plate yet but it is on my to-do list as I have seen a photo in Italy of a car at the start of a hillclimb (probably the Bobbio-Penice 1931) bearing the race #142 and showing the Torino plate you mention. It was identified at least tentatively as a 6C1500 from the notes I saw but that is not necessarily accurate. I have a photocopy of that photo which I can try to locate for you. I will share a scan in exchange for some more detail about your car. I presume you have a copy of the visura or estratto cronologico already that tells you that it is the same car that you own? I would tend to think that Bona had moved into his 1930 car (or even a later one?) by the time of the 1931 Bobbio-Penice event but only further research will tell. It is possible that he kept two cars, one a 6C1750 and one a 6C1500 and ran the 6C1500 on the Bobbio-Penice with the intent of gaining a 1500cc class prize? Unfortunately, although I have collected a few numbers and a bit of related data, I have not yet found an entry list. It would be a welcome addition to our research notes!

More to follow?

John

ar51matta 09-13-2008 03:46 PM

Gaspare Bona
 
John,

no. 142 is definitively my car, a 6C1750 SS. All the details are right, from front cover between shocks/frame, radiator protection screen, lights and mounting to the fenders, hood, mounting points for softtop, fuel tank cap aso.
Since GP sold the car to a societa in 1929, they had perhaps like a scuderia or just tax purposes. I have the excerpt from the Torino license plate register. As far as I know, GP bought an 8C in 1933.

Martin

iicarJohn 09-13-2008 11:16 PM

Chassis number?
 
Hi Martin,

Are you going to make me do the research so that I can know the chassis/engine number of your car? Please share it one way or another. The more I have to work with, the better the chance I can dig up more for you. For us! I have a data-collection form prepared that I will send to you if you will share a direct email address (perhaps via PM?) or you can find the form elsewhere on this forum by searching here:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/limi...-1500-a-2.html

I am presuming that when you write "GP" you are referring to Gaspare Bona?

Gaspare Bona, of Carignano near Torino, owned a few Alfa Romeo cars in the 1920's and 1930's. I'm not going to pretend that I know them all yet or have even found leads to them all. In 1928, he raced a 6C1500, not yet identified. Perhaps more than one? Angela Cherrett describes one car as a 6C1500 Sport and another as "6C1500MMS". Perhaps both designations refer to one car and perhaps not? With one car, he set a 1500cc class record on the Biella-Oropa hillclimb in 1928 that stood until 1931. I am guessing that he then owned another 6C in 1929, perhaps the car that you have that you say is a 1750SS. If it was sold to a local Scuderia in 1929 then this could be for tax reasons but there were also liability issues that might have been a primary motivating factor? Then there is a fourth series 6C1750GS from 1930/31 which was chassis 8513075. Looking more carefully at notes collected, I note that I am not certain as to precisely when he owned this car. It may have been that he got it during 1934 as a used car?

Bona owned AR 8C2300 N. 2211056 from new in May 1932 through July 1934 but in 1933 he also purchased 2211051 from Scuderia Ferrari and owned it until April 1936. So, it seems possible that there were times when Bona owned three Alfa Romeo sports/racing cars simultaneously.

Whatever you've learned about your car may help decribe Bona's history with other cars by implication. Similarly, studying his history with other cars may also have implications to your car's history?

All the best.

John de Boer

ar51matta 11-17-2008 04:24 PM

Bobbio-Penice 1931
 
John,

I got the starting list from the 1931 Bobbio-Penice hillclimb from a good friend at the Piacenza Car Club. i found my car with starting number 142, it was entered by Sgnazio Maria Consiglio. According to the Torino car register in my posession he was the owner of TO15515 after Bona.
So I am happy to have shed some light in the history of my car.
Starting number 150 was Cavalliere Ferrari, a total of 9 6C1750 participated, 1 6C2300 (Enzo Ferrari).

Martin

iicarJohn 11-17-2008 05:16 PM

Martin: Surely you mean "Ignazio Maria Consiglio"
 
... and not "Sgnazio" ...?

I would like very much to see the entry list that you have obtained, not just for the Alfa Romeo information it contains.

Consiglio also raced 1932 on the Biella - Oropa hillclimb. Perhaps in this same car? He was something like 8th in class (over 1500cc). By the 1950's, he or his son (or grandson?) was apparently in Messina and owned and raced a Siata Daina Gran Sport which was never registered for some reason. At least, that is what has been claimed.

Of course, you have not supplied anything whatsoever more than mere claims that you own one of his Alfa Romeo cars. No chassis number. No descriptive information. Niente. I would like to learn more about your car. You know what to do ... if you'd like me to work on developing more information. Not all of the dialogue needs to be public but at the moment I feel as if I am being "teased" publicly. I might just lose interest in this particular mystery?

A reminder: In between the other distractions of life, I am researching the general histories of more than 20,000 Italian cars on the path to describing those that are not yet well-described. If you'd like to have extra effort paid to yours, you must do something to inspire me to wish to make a particular effort. Otherwise, your car might be something like 15,000th (or higher) on the list of "to do" during my next research trip. Depending on what I come up with, your car might move up or down the list. Inspiration comes from many places, not just owners who pretend to wish to learn something more but can't be bothered to share the information that will make it possible ... or exciting or even emotionally fulfilling.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

ar51matta 11-18-2008 02:00 PM

Bobbio-Penice 1931
 
Dear John,

I am very sorry about your feelings. I can assure you I never ever had intensions to teese you. The starting list shows Sgnazio as first name of Mr. Cosiglio as well as my italian papers from the Torino state register. I was puzzled as well as you are about this spelling.
I will send you right now offline the italian newspaper copy from 1931 to show you my serious interest. If you mail me your phone number I will call you back at no cost for you and I can maybe explain you other details of my car.
I have more than 1 Alfa and I learned my lessons in this "business". For me it is hobby and I have to use the night time, often I am on the road and the hobby has to stay in second row.

best regards
Martin

Messina Races 05-26-2015 05:59 AM

Hi Jhon and Martin,

I have the info about the Gaspare Bona 6C Alfa Romeo 1750 GS because I have just completed writing a book on Coppa Vinci-Messina 1925-1932. Ignazio Consiglio, Messina gentleman driver, bought this car (engine n. 0312902 chassis n.031902) from Gaspare Bona 02.10.1931, and raced also in the Giro di Sicilia 1931 (retired, accident), Swiss G.P. 1932( ?), Circuit du Dauphiné - Grenoble (did not start), Grand Prix du Comminges (retired 5 lap mechanical failure), Rally di Montecarlo 1932 (63° place), Coppa Messina 1932 (5° place), Avellino Circuit (9° place).

Greatings from Sicilia
Nuccio - Messina Races

ar51matta 05-26-2015 06:34 AM

Hi Nuccio,

I can confirm the purchasing date 2.10.1931, shown also in my papers. Be aware please the Alfa is a 6C 1750 SS, not a GS. It is very important for me to know what races my car participated. Can you give me more detailed informations please (martin.kapp (at) kapp-coburg.de
In April 1933 the 6C was sold to a new owner from Padua.
I highly appreciate your research, thank you for sharing all the info.

best regards, Martin

GT4 05-26-2015 07:06 AM

Paul Sheldon wrote a book of collated records of Grand prix and voiturette racing Volume 1 1900-1925 ISBN 0 9512433 0 6 First published in 1987.
There should be a volume 2 but alas I do not have that one sadly.
This should give lots of data and information.
Hope this helps somewhat.
I am doing a bit of research on my wife's Grand father Louis Plattner Born in Austria.
If anybody has some info on Louis, Plattner,.. Please


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