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post #1 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Abarth chassis

http://ferrariexperts.com/abarth.htm
This page is from above mentioned site.
Can anybody confirm the info, that the Disco Volante used an Abarth frame.
Personally I am of the opinion that someone has mixed the Disco Volante with the 750 Competitzione
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post #2 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 12:09 PM
 
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The car in the upper photo is an Abarth with an Alfa 1900 motor. There is a very similar looking Alfa 1900 Ghia. The chassis on the two cars are different.

Abarth, as far as I am aware, really had nothing to do with the C-52 Disco Volante or the later 6c3000-CM, also called Disco by some. They may have designed the exhaust system, as some standard Alfa 1900s had Abarth exhausts.
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post #3 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 12:30 PM
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Abarth Chassis

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Originally Posted by dretceterini View Post
The car in the upper photo is an Abarth with an Alfa 1900 motor. There is a very similar looking Alfa 1900 Ghia. The chassis on the two cars are different.

Abarth, as far as I am aware, really had nothing to do with the C-52 Disco Volante or the later 6c3000-CM, also called Disco by some. They may have designed the exhaust system, as some standard Alfa 1900s had Abarth exhausts.
Stu:

Would Pat have covered that in his Abarth book? Not where I can pull it and look right now....I know we owned a Ghia bodied car, I think it was an Abarth, the one we got out of Gaithersburg, Maryland. I know it's pictured in one of his books, I suspect it's the Abarth book. Whether it's the same chassis you're describing or not I don't know; and it certainly doesn't look I either picture posted. It was a coupe and in my opinion, large and outright ugly.

Cheryl
(Not an authority nor SME on anything, just PATSYF)
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post #4 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Stu. Have you looked on the site. In the article "A new mount is born" its stated that there was imported Abarth cars into USA mounted with Giulietta engines. By a Tony Pompeo.
The info is obvious a copy from an American magazine.
Have you ever herd about this.
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post #5 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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The two tone painted in the post, is the Abarth Alfa Romeo 2000 designed by Ghia, an a Abarth chassis and 1900 tuned engine
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post #6 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 01:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000 touring sp View Post
Stu. Have you looked on the site. In the article "A new mount is born" its stated that there was imported Abarth cars into USA mounted with Giulietta engines. By a Tony Pompeo.
The info is obvious a copy from an American magazine.
Have you ever heard about this.

Never happened. I belive the total number of cars built was 10; 8 cars Abarth 207A, 1 car as steet car with full windscreen 208A, and 1 car with coupe body 209A. All had Abarth modified Fiat 1100 motors.

As to the Abarth Alfa 1900 coupe, I never saw it in person. Paul Forbes who lived in Malibu California had an almost identical looking car with an Alfa and not an Abarth chassis. It was single color paint. This car still exists, but I am not sure who owns it. http://content.answers.com/main/cont..._Alfa_Ghia.JPG


There were a few Giulietta powered Abarths, but all "one-offs", and none that looked like the Abarth 207A. The Alfa/Abarth 1000 coupe comes to mind as one.

By the way, I am working on the information on Nardi for that web site. I have been having medical problems, so it is taking me longer than I would have liked...

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post #7 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 01:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pat Braden View Post
Stu:

Would Pat have covered that in his Abarth book? Not where I can pull it and look right now....I know we owned a Ghia bodied car, I think it was an Abarth, the one we got out of Gaithersburg, Maryland. I know it's pictured in one of his books, I suspect it's the Abarth book. Whether it's the same chassis you're describing or not I don't know; and it certainly doesn't look I either picture posted. It was a coupe and in my opinion, large and outright ugly.
I don't remember Pat owning a Ghia bodied car at all....
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post #8 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 03:51 PM
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Abarth Chassis

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Originally Posted by dretceterini View Post
I don't remember Pat owning a Ghia bodied car at all....
Stu:

This is Peter Vack's quote from Pat's memorial article in Veloce Today. The Abarth that he's making reference to being 3,000 miles away was the Ghia bodied car out of Maryland, the other two Allemanos that we had, one coupe and one spider, Pat had and brought with him from Michigan:

"...During the Great Years of Exportation, 1985-1991, I would find a rare Alfa or Abarth on the east coast, only to learn that somehow, Braden had already been there and done that despite being 3000 miles away. He was always a bit ahead of the rest of the pack; most of us literally followed in his footsteps..."

I'll see if I can find you a page reference in the Abarth book with the picture, it will be a while before I can scan it or a picture of the car, though.... as I said it was ugly, primer grey.

Cheryl
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post #9 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Stu.
These information is coming from magazines printed in the states at the period where the things happened.
To my knowledge there was 2 official Abarth Alfa Romeo. The 2000 pictured in the post and the Abarth Bertone 1000 from 1958, and the unofficial 750 Competitzione Boano where Abarth build the chassis. To that is the thing he offered as parts for 1900 and Giulietta of assessories, and ad to what he did on customers orders.
Abart had one main big failure, for us that has an historic interest, he didn't register anything of what he made or did.
Does anybody know this magazine Sports Cars. It is stated that he ordered 10 Abart cars with bored out Giulietts power plant, could be to 1500 ccm.
This Tony Pompeo, does anybody remember him.
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post #10 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 05:43 PM
 
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Thanks Stu.
These information is coming from magazines printed in the states at the period where the things happened.
To my knowledge there was 2 official Abarth Alfa Romeo. The 2000 pictured in the post and the Abarth Bertone 1000 from 1958, and the unofficial 750 Competitzione Boano where Abarth build the chassis. To that is the thing he offered as parts for 1900 and Giulietta of assessories, and ad to what he did on customers orders.
Abart had one main big failure, for us that has an historic interest, he didn't register anything of what he made or did.
Does anybody know this magazine Sports Cars. It is stated that he ordered 10 Abart cars with bored out Giulietts power plant, could be to 1500 ccm.
This Tony Pompeo, does anybody remember him.
I am very familiar with Tony Pompeo. He was the biggest importer of etceterini in the US in the early 1950s and had big dreams, many which never came true. I understand he was also a poor businessman and connected to the American mafiosi. There is an article on him in one of the issues of Automobile Quarterly; about 4 years ago..
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post #11 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 08:47 PM
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Abarth Chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Braden View Post
Stu:

This is Peter Vack's quote from Pat's memorial article in Veloce Today. The Abarth that he's making reference to being 3,000 miles away was the Ghia bodied car out of Maryland, the other two Allemanos that we had, one coupe and one spider, Pat had and brought with him from Michigan:

"...During the Great Years of Exportation, 1985-1991, I would find a rare Alfa or Abarth on the east coast, only to learn that somehow, Braden had already been there and done that despite being 3000 miles away. He was always a bit ahead of the rest of the pack; most of us literally followed in his footsteps..."

I'll see if I can find you a page reference in the Abarth book with the picture, it will be a while before I can scan it or a picture of the car, though.... as I said it was ugly, primer grey.

The Ghia bodied Abarth that we owned and was originally misidentified as an Alfa, and the reason Pat got the call about it, can be seen on pgs. 30 and 31 of Pat's Abarth book. The picture was taken in Flint, Michigan at his mom's house, his son, Mark, is standing next to the right-hand drive car. This is what the text reads from the book:

"What is perhaps the oldest surviving Abarth is the Ghia-bodied 205 built in 1953. Identified during the writing of this book, the car was found in a barn in Virginia and initially identified as an Alfa Romeo. The car is shown in the January 1960 issue of Road & Track next to a similiarly-bodied Simca-Abarth. Though the engine and transmission are missing and the interior gutted, the torsion-bar front suspension made it undeniably Abarth and not Alfa."

I had forgotten that the car was originally found in Virginia --- we bought it from a young guy and his wife in Gaithersburg, Maryland who had twins.

I also had forgotten that prior to Pat's move to California he also owned a double bubble in addition to the Allemano coupe and spider. That one didn't come with us and was sold.

Cheryl
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post #12 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 09:16 PM
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Abarth Chassis

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http://ferrariexperts.com/abarth.htm
This page is from above mentioned site.
Can anybody confirm the info, that the Disco Volante used an Abarth frame.
Personally I am of the opinion that someone has mixed the Disco Volante with the 750 Competitzione
I certainly can't. I don't see any mention of the Disco Volante in Pat's Abarth book just skimming and it does not have an index. The only mention that I see as a cross-over between Abarth and Alfa are two cars built in 1957, the Alfa engined one, a record setter, along with a discussion of how Abarth changed the Giulietta engine to perform better. The other car had a 750cc engine that was the same as in the 1956 Bertone cars. Both cars had similar bodies which resembled the Bertone car with the addition of proper tail fins, smaller on the Abarth engined car, and larger on the Alfa engined car.

For further information or how the Alfa engine was changed by Abarth and Abarth racing see pgs. 35 - 39 of Pat's Abarth book.

Cheryl
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post #13 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-17-2007, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Oh yes I forgot the Abarth 1100 ccm record car
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post #14 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-18-2007, 03:22 AM
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I also regard the photo of the Disco Volante in an article about Abarth as very misleading!
For me it could only be possible that Abarth built the exhaust pipes or/and the shock-absorbers, but there is no proof for that.
Frame and body of the DV were definitely NOT connected to Carlo Abarth! The frame on the photos belongs to the 1900 Coupe and the frame of the DV looks totally different.

From my memories there were indeed just three Alfa Romeos being connected to Abarth: The 1900 Ghia that is shown on the photos in the article, further the Alfa 1000 by Colani and the Abarth Record car with body by Pinin Farina.

I don't have the intention to hijack this thread but maybe some of you like the attached photo of another intersting Abarth project from 1953, it took me some time to identify the car those parts belong to. I am sure some of us find out quick



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post #15 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-18-2007, 04:15 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Carlo
The Colani is that a real Abarth. Once I thought it was. Then I heard that when they tested the Abarth Bertone at Avus they crazed the cars. And from the wreck the Colani surfaced.
Can anybody confirm.
The Abarth parts.
The pictures is from this site http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21300 there is also some beautiful Alfa pictures

Abarth Ferrari 166MM 1953

The racing class up to 2000ccm was continuously popular in Italy. Up to the start of the season of 1953 Ferrari had made changed on the 166 chassis .He took the brakes from tipo 212 and the rear axle from 340america. The Colombo designed 12cyl. Engine was running in its 5 year and developed 160 hp at 7000 r/min Compression 9,0:1 and with Webbers 36IF4C.
The Scuderia Guastalla had just received a Ferrari 166MM with Vignale body, but the driver Giulio Musitella was unsatisfied with the car, as he claimed that it was to heavy.
He went to Carlo Abarth to get help. Carlo Abarth promised to help and he removed all the parts and made a new car with inspiration in design from the Scaglione designed Abarth 1400 from 1952 with the central driver light.
As the unconventional man Carlo Abarth was. To the chassis he made a body that was designed to race. All the parts was made as single pieces and bolted on the chassis.
This construction made it easy to repair when there had been damage.
On the chassis/body Abarth saved 55kg and the total weight of the new chassis/body was 275 kg.
The improvements made results. Musitella took class victory in Taga Floria and used the car for the whole season 1953 with best result general victory in Messina 10 hours race.
For the 1954 season the car was equipped with the new Ferrari 250GT engine 3,0 L and 220 hp.
Later in 1954 it had a new carouse from Scagletti. Without any success, there after the Ferrari chassis 0262M disappeared.
Almost 50 years after the Abarth body was changed the car turns up with a new replica body.
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