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post #16 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-18-2007, 08:10 AM
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There has been an article about the Alfa-Abarth 1000 in "Het Klaverblaadje" #68.
Ben Hendricks wrote indeed that all Alfa-Abarth cars (he talks about two or three 1000cc cars) were crashed while testing. There have been tests on the Avus and Monza circuit.
The wreck (or the wrecks of two crashed cars) came to the local Alfa dealer in Berlin who later sold all remains to Luigi Colani who then designed a new body for the car. The Colani version is dated 1962.

The first versions of the Alfa-Abarth were designed by Franco Scaglione who worked at Bertone in these days.

The Colani version went into the hands of Peter Kaus who maintained the Rosso Bianco Collection that has recently been sold to Holland

About the Abarth Ferrari....you are of course right
I wasn't aware that this car was a topic in the Ferrarichat.


Best regards
Ciao Carlo
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post #17 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-18-2007, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Braden View Post
The Ghia bodied Abarth that we owned and was originally misidentified as an Alfa, and the reason Pat got the call about it, can be seen on pgs. 30 and 31 of Pat's Abarth book. The picture was taken in Flint, Michigan at his mom's house, his son, Mark, is standing next to the right-hand drive car. This is what the text reads from the book:

"What is perhaps the oldest surviving Abarth is the Ghia-bodied 205 built in 1953. Identified during the writing of this book, the car was found in a barn in Virginia and initially identified as an Alfa Romeo. The car is shown in the January 1960 issue of Road & Track next to a similiarly-bodied Simca-Abarth. Though the engine and transmission are missing and the interior gutted, the torsion-bar front suspension made it undeniably Abarth and not Alfa."

I had forgotten that the car was originally found in Virginia --- we bought it from a young guy and his wife in Gaithersburg, Maryland who had twins.

I also had forgotten that prior to Pat's move to California he also owned a double bubble in addition to the Allemano coupe and spider. That one didn't come with us and was sold.
I didn't realize Pat owned that car, but it is not a Tipo 205.
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post #18 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-18-2007, 06:52 PM
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Abarth Chassis

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I didn't realize Pat owned that car, but it is not a Tipo 205.
I'm assuming that you're stating Pat's identification of the car is incorrect? I don't have the 1960 issue of the magazine that he references so I can't go any further than this other than ordering a copy of it through ILL. If you believe it's something else, what do you believe it is?

I don't remember when we sold that car or to whom, it was sold before we moved in 1988 to the current house. We bought it while he was writing the Abarth book so that would have been early 80s.

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post #19 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-18-2007, 07:32 PM
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This is what the 205 looked like. It was Vignale bodied and was the only 205 built.

http://www.supercars.net/cars/3183.html

XCan you post a picture of the car you are speaking of? I think I know which car it is, but I'm not certain.

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post #20 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-18-2007, 09:46 PM
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Abarth Chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Braden View Post
The Ghia bodied Abarth that we owned and was originally misidentified as an Alfa, and the reason Pat got the call about it, can be seen on pgs. 30 and 31 of Pat's Abarth book. The picture was taken in Flint, Michigan at his mom's house, his son, Mark, is standing next to the right-hand drive car. This is what the text reads from the book:

"What is perhaps the oldest surviving Abarth is the Ghia-bodied 205 built in 1953. Identified during the writing of this book, the car was found in a barn in Virginia and initially identified as an Alfa Romeo. The car is shown in the January 1960 issue of Road & Track next to a similiarly-bodied Simca-Abarth. Though the engine and transmission are missing and the interior gutted, the torsion-bar front suspension made it undeniably Abarth and not Alfa."
Stu:

Here is the full paragraph that preceeds the above paragraph in the Abarth book. I will try and scan the pics of the Ghia bodied car, may not be until this weekend, though.

"Abarth's early model numbering began with the 204 Spider of 1949: that series ended with the 215A in 1956. This does not mean that there were 12 distinct 200-series Abarth models produced between 1954 and 1956: only model numbers 204, 205, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211 and 215 are identifiable. The 205 was a coupe version of the 204 and was introduced at the Turin show. It featured magneto ignition, twin carburetors on an Abarth manifold, torsion bar suspension and a claimed top speed of 114 mph (185 kph). Another 205, bodied by Bertone, was sold to the director of Packard Motors (USA) in 1952. A Vignale-bodied 205 was produced in the same year and carried "luxury bodywork" which indicates it was a touring, rather than a sports, car."

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post #21 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-18-2007, 10:05 PM
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Abarth Chassis

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Originally Posted by carlo View Post
There has been an article about the Alfa-Abarth 1000 in "Het Klaverblaadje" #68.
Ben Hendricks wrote indeed that all Alfa-Abarth cars (he talks about two or three 1000cc cars) were crashed while testing. There have been tests on the Avus and Monza circuit.
The wreck (or the wrecks of two crashed cars) came to the local Alfa dealer in Berlin who later sold all remains to Luigi Colani who then designed a new body for the car. The Colani version is dated 1962.

The first versions of the Alfa-Abarth were designed by Franco Scaglione who worked at Bertone in these days.

The Colani version went into the hands of Peter Kaus who maintained the Rosso Bianco Collection that has recently been sold to Holland

About the Abarth Ferrari....you are of course right
I wasn't aware that this car was a topic in the Ferrarichat.


Best regards
Ciao Carlo
The only reference I see in Pat's Abarth book to Scaglione is in regard to the "highly aerodynamic coupe on a Fiat 1400 chassis in 1952"

and

"... year 1954, Abarth tried his hand on the current Alfa Romeo product--a 890-kg. (1958 lbs.), Ghia-bodied coupe with wrap-around windshield and 2-tone paint job. Dual weber carburetors were fitted in place of the stock downdraft Solex units and a top speed of 200 kph (123 mph) was claimed. A similar-looking, but Scaglione-bodied, 2-liter Renault Fregate-Abarth was shown in 1955."

Cheryl
(Not an authority nor SME on anything, just PATSYF)

Last edited by Pat Braden; 04-18-2007 at 10:08 PM.
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post #22 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
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My excuse I don't have the Braden book. But I have looked on what Ghia did on Abarth, and found these 2 from 1953. Is it these it about, the one on Fiat 1100 basis the other on Simca Aronde bases.
The Abarth Renault Fregat was produce by Ghia, and Scaglioni was designing for Bertone at this time. Bertone produced Abarth 215A and 216A, a coupe and spider in the same design
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post #23 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 2000 touring sp View Post
My excuse I don't have the Braden book. But I have looked on what Ghia did on Abarth, and found these 2 from 1953. Is it these it about, the one on Fiat 1100 basis the other on Simca Aronde bases.
The Abarth Renault Fregat was produce by Ghia, and Scaglioni was designing for Bertone at this time. Bertone produced Abarth 215A and 216A, a coupe and spider in the same design
On the Braden book, I do have an advantage as his widow; not only do I have the book, I traipsed all over the country shooting cars, doing research with him, meeting people, and was pro-active and supportive in all aspects of getting the book completed to be published.

The Ghia bodied Abarth that we owned looks like the picture on the left from what I can tell, considering the picture I have has no trim, glass etc., literally, a gutted rolling chassis as stated. It was right hand drive and looks most like it from what I can determine. I'll try and post a picture of it later today.

If I can manage full-page scans, I'll try and post some of the material that I've been quoting from since the book is long of out-of-print and expensive by any standard if you can find a copy.

Cheryl
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post #24 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
The only reference I see in Pat's Abarth book to Scaglione is in regard to the "highly aerodynamic coupe on a Fiat 1400 chassis in 1952"
To avoid misunderstandings, the Alfa-Abarth 1000 was presented November 1958 in the Torino Show.

If your book doesn't not mention explicit Scaglione as designer of our car, there is no contradiction to the fact that he actually was. Other sources do mention this connection.
Feel free to check:

Bertone 90 years by Lucciano Greggio p 68

Abarth, the man, the machines by Greggio p 150

Abarth Catalogue Raisonnée by Carlo Felice Zampini Salazar p 158

and already mentioned a 38 pages article in Het Klaverblaadje 68.

Using Google I found this scan of the car in its original shape:
http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?i...00019586tc.jpg

Further Alfa - Abarth alliances:
http://www.italian-cars-club.com/ita...pic.php?t=7317

Ciao Carlo
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post #25 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a picture of the Abarth Alfa Bertone 1000.A nice little thing. Abarth made the chassis and reduced the Giulietta engine to 1000ccm
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post #26 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 08:15 AM
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http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?i...eabarth9ch.jpg

In this picture, the first car is the Abarth A210, based on Fiat 600 component. The second car is the 207A, the 3rd car is the 208A, the 4th car is the 209A. These are all based on Fiat 1100 components. The 5th car is the Abarth Renault.

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post #27 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 08:22 AM
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This is the Abarth Alfa 1000 after the modifications by Coloni

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN

This covers the history of all the Abarth LSR streamliners. The Abarth Alfa version looks very similar

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3D1%26hl%3Den

This is the article from Veloce Today on what the call the Abarth 215, but that is not the proper title for the car, nor is BAT1. The car is based on a Fiat 1400, with the motor enlarged to 1500. There is no connection to Alfa.
http://www.velocetoday.com/cars/cars_49.php

This car is not an Abarth Alfa, but pure Abarth (Fiat). There was also a very similar looking Abarth 2300 spider
http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?i...llemano0il.jpg

This car has no realtionship to Alfa either. It is a Abarth/Fiat 600 that raced at LeMans
http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?i...espidercor.jpg

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post #28 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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And here is the Abarth 1500 based on Fiat 1400 designed by Scaglioni. Did we miss any
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post #29 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Maybe these ones.
Abarth 215A and 216A Bertone, looks like Scaglione design
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post #30 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 08:45 AM
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There are also some other Scaglione designed cars from the same period, but have no connection to Alfa. Some are Stanguellini/Fiats. I can post pictures of some of them, if you wish.

I believe this car was at Concours Italiano a few years ago, and is under restoration. I think Norb McNamara owns it..

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/atta...1&d=1176987831

Last edited by dretceterini; 04-19-2007 at 09:02 AM.
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