South African built Alfas - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by South Africa
Dear all,

To the best of my knowledge no Alfa Romeo Spiders were built in South Africa. As discussed before, there were many rules/laws which 'regulated' vehicle assembly/production over the various years in South Africa.

At some point in time, in South African history, motor vehicle manufacturers/assemblers could import 'additional' items if their 'local content' exceeded the minimum. What Alfa Romeo was doing was exceeding 'local content' on the locally 'produced' Alfas and importing the Spider 'fully assembled'. Alfa Romeo could import the Spider without wheels and tyres, put these onto the vehicle in South Africa and claim local content. On occassions the formulas used to calculate local content were rather complex and tedious. At one point in time you could produce a container load of brake discs for Alfa Romeo, for example, export them claim your 'export credits' and import a few spiders.

We own a few Alfa Romeos, two spiders amongst the 'lot'. The 1968 Duetto was produced in Italy to Right Hand Drive(RHD) specification exported to South Africa and then to England. The 1969 Spider Veloce has a similar history.

Maybe there is an exception that can disprove what I have said above?
Thanks for your confirmation......Spyders were never built in South Africa...they were all imported from Italy to S.A.
Cheers....
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post #17 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 10:07 AM
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'South African' built Alfa Romeos

Dear Amarthur,

I am not able to answer your question with specifics as I was 'involved' in 'policy documents'. You would have to ask people that worked in the
Marketing, Costing or Finance Departments at Alfa Romeo South Africa in the 'period' in question. You may have to wait for the articles from gtv2000.

You should also keep in mind that South African motor vehicles had a 'healthy profit' margin as the industry was protected by an 'ad valorem' import duty of up to 125% in certain instances and at certain points in time. I was made to believe that companies like Mercedes Benz and others 'welcomed' these 'healthy profits' even if it was on only a few units. So what is wrong with importing a few 'dating/dated' 2000 Alfa Spiders for 6000 currency units and selling them for 12900? This is what Alfa Romeo apparently did in the few years before withdrawing from South Africa. Would you do the same if you were in business?

As Mulato has stated, the place of manufacture for Alfa Romeo in the late 70's early 80's was Brits, near Rosslyn and Pretoria. Mercedes Benz (DaimlerChrysler now) was/is situated in East London, Delta Motor Corporation (General Motors now) was/is situated in Port Elizabeth, Volkswagen was/is in Uitenhage, BMW is in Rosslyn, Toyota is in Kwazulu/Natal.

As you have quoted from Wikipedia and other Googled sources I can only provide my personal experienes with these sources.

Firstly, is this source stating what was manufactured for the Commonwealth by British Leyland, as it was once called?

Secondly, I am not saying that what you have quoted is incorrect, however I have found some errors in articles posted on the internet.

Thirdly, the statement is a 'broad brush' statement in my opinion.

As mentioned before the best way to find out about a specific Alfa Romeo is to contact Centro Storico.
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post #18 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South Africa
Dear all,

To the best of my knowledge no Alfa Romeo Spiders were built in South Africa. As discussed before, there were many rules/laws which 'regulated' vehicle assembly/production over the various years in South Africa.

At some point in time, in South African history, motor vehicle manufacturers/assemblers could import 'additional' items if their 'local content' exceeded the minimum. What Alfa Romeo was doing was exceeding 'local content' on the locally 'produced' Alfas and importing the Spider 'fully assembled'. Alfa Romeo could import the Spider without wheels and tyres, put these onto the vehicle in South Africa and claim local content. On occassions the formulas used to calculate local content were rather complex and tedious. At one point in time you could produce a container load of brake discs for Alfa Romeo, for example, export them claim your 'export credits' and import a few spiders.

We own a few Alfa Romeos, two spiders amongst the 'lot'. The 1968 Duetto was produced in Italy to Right Hand Drive(RHD) specification exported to South Africa and then to England. The 1969 Spider Veloce has a similar history.

Maybe there is an exception that can disprove what I have said above?
I think what you said is pretty much correct. The laws did change periodically, and relaxed after a few years. But the manufacturers did resort to exporting bits and bobs to gain import permits for "complete" vehicles. But they could not escape the local content completely and did have to design and build locally to satisfy the regulations.

And on the 7th day, he made Alfas....

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post #19 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 11:33 PM
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Spiders were definitly NOT manufactured in S.A.Niether was any of 6 sedans..
Body panels and chassis units were pressed here in S.A. by Dorbyl heavy Industries in Brits.

As for Gtv6 30l...Alfa S.A. never built a 2.8l v6 for this car or any other.The first 2.8l v6 was built by Glenwood motors and it remained a private conversion and had nothing to do with Alfa.
No 2.8`s were ever put into 30l gtv6`s and sold as 30l.The only consession to the 30l was the fitment of 2.5 wheels in the last days of ALfa in S.A.This was as the batch of Compomotive cx wheels had run out.


The 30l was an Autodelta derived upgrade which was given to Alfa S.A. to race against the 535i BMW`s..(And v8 Fords...)

You guys will not belive how many engines,gearboxes,body panels tooling dies,etc,etc..were buried st Brits in the final days..A lot of guys went there and bought absolute bargains,but the majoroty of the stuff was simply bulldozed into the ground.
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post #20 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barryh
You guys will not belive how many engines,gearboxes,body panels tooling dies,etc,etc..were buried st Brits in the final days..A lot of guys went there and bought absolute bargains,but the majoroty of the stuff was simply bulldozed into the ground.
Hopefully, somebody will start digging them out before they approach the value of diamonds...

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #21 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-06-2006, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tubut
Hopefully, somebody will start digging them out before they approach the value of diamonds...
Heh heh. When considering the current price of NOS 116 bodyparts, they appear to have reached that value already
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post #22 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-06-2006, 07:46 AM
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Folks...BARRYH is 100% correct... the Alfa GTV6 ..3.0L was a SOUTH AFRICAN built machine period...had nothing to do with the 2.5L engines or 2.8 as some menbers tried to mention in the bolletin...keep in mind that books are not always acurate unless you worked in the Plant Factory place at the time....Has that been my case and my family...so i know what i am talking about and what whent thrue my hands in the production line ok
Cheers to all.
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post #23 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-06-2006, 09:01 AM
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There are fascinating stories about Alfa's history in SA e.g. how the carbs were built for each of those 300 or so 3.0 GTV6s that were built. Fuel injection was swapped into some other sedan (I forget which) - therefore the only place in the world where you'll also find those sedans with fuel injection!

Anyway, I heard Roger McCleery telling us the story behind the 3.0l GTV6. I think they found a motor lying in the Autodelta workshop when travelling there or something, asked what it was... a short while later, a homologation legend was born...

Greig, who normally posts a fair bit on this website, is super knowledgeable about SA Alfa history. It was all before my time and I forget far more than I manage to remember when I'm told stories about the good old days. Hopefully he can add a bit to this discussion.

Ever heard of a Giulia Rally? Well that's another SA special... 2.0l, LS diff... pretty unique. Group 1 Giulietta's may have also been specific to SA - not sure...

The Alfa brand was very strongly linked to racing in SA (as it is in most places around the world)... I've seen some footage of 3.0l GTV 6's trouncing the BMW 535s at the old Kyalami - magic stuff...

Anyway, just rambling here, maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can tell us more.

Cheers

Shaun
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post #24 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-08-2006, 10:34 AM
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'South African' built Alfa Romeos

Dear all,

When Alfa South Africa stopped producing vehicles many many items were destroyed. Luckily some items did survive and are in various collections around the world. I do have some photographs of items salvaged however the files are too large to put into my document. Many of us did 'morn' the destruction of the beautiful racing 'straight cut gearboxes' together with, by todays standards, many other valuable items. People like Dawie de Villiers of Glenwood Motors would love to have bought those items and organisations, such as the one owned by Jungle Justice from this Bulletin Board, would have found a 'loving home' for them. In my view the situation was a purely economical one. Let us use as an example a gearbox imported from Italy. At the time of import of the items into South Africa there was an ad valorem duty payable of 125%. Possibly for cash flow reasons, these items were put into a bonded store and the duty only payable 30(?) days from exit from this store. If the gearbox had cost 1000 currency units then it would have to be sold for 2 250 plus. I was made to believe that if these prices could not be realised then the items were to be destroyed and this is one of the reasons why 'loads of stuff' was destroyed. Some of the 'racing stuff' remained outside of the factory and was not destroyed. These items included two GTAm type engines with spare distributors, GTA engines and cylinder heads, 16 valve engines and cylinder heads etc. These items found there way into collections all over the world. One person in Germany was a 'particularly agressive' purchaser in the 1990's. With respect to the tooling: What use would a business find for a front valence die for a 1750 GTV in 1985? Maybe sad but a 'reality of the times'.

As mentioned in this thread a good place to possibly get Alfa Romeo South Africa is from one of the many clubs there. There is at least one 'large' Alfa Romeo Club in South Africa. I did know the person in charge of the archives there some years back. I am sure the person in charge of these archives, if still in existance, would be happy to provide some historical facts.
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post #25 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-08-2006, 09:41 PM
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S.A.,What orginisation does JJ own??
This is interesting.......
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post #26 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-09-2006, 12:42 AM
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Jungle Justice

Dear Barryh,

To the best of my knowledge the relationship between Dawie de Villiers and Jungle Justice is quite clearly stated in at least one of 'posting' by Jungle Justice.
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post #27 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-09-2006, 01:22 AM
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Ik know that Alfasud's where produced in South-Africa. First as full CKD kits but later all of the body panels where produced in SA. The Alfasud's where assembled/made in an Alfa Romeo factory located in a place called Brits.

Owner of 12 Alfasud's in all sorts of condition but mostly rusty
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post #28 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-09-2006, 08:24 AM
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South African built Alfa's

Seeing as I live here, I suppose that I should climb in to this thread somewhere...

Yes, we had the only assembly plant outside of Italy to produce Alfa's, (excluding the one in South America, where the name of the vehicle was changed).

The first to be locally assembled, from a CKD kit was the '60 Giulietta Ti G.d. or Guida Destra / RHD. This was built at Car Distributors Assembly, (CDA), which became Mercedes Benz South Africa & now DaimlerChrysler. In those years, CDA assembled lots of different makes.

The Ti was followed by the RHD 105 Series Giulia sedans and the RHD 106 Series 2600 Berlina's. We still have the Factory Records for these cars. Fusi lists 425 RHD 2600 berlina's, but the records show that 2 were converted by CDA back to LHD, so the actual total is 423.

The RHD 105 Coupe's were built at the Rosslyn Assembly Plant outside Pretoria & the Alfasud's were assembled at Brits. My 105 Coupe's have Rosslyn plates riveted in the engine bays. These plates actually carry the engine number of the car.

Due to local content requirements, there was a lot of local development & local content, tyres, wheel rims, glass, seats, radiators, headlights, carpets, headlining, exhausts etc, etc are easy targets for local development.

When I restored my first 105 in the early '90's, you could still by new exhaust systems off the shelf - not NOS, they were actually still in production, by the time I sold it, it had the second last system available in SA on it.

SA paint colours are also different to the Italian ones, yes, names are similar, but the colours are not the same as Italy.

We also had local development of "Special models", like the Giulia Rallye - a 105 Giulia Sedan with either a hot 1600 or 2000cc motor & bits to match. The 3.0 GTV 6 has been discussed - this was essentially a bored out 2.5 with internals to match & a brace of triple Dell'Orto's off the Alfa6 sedan. The 116 Series "Giulietta" sedan was also involved in a special run of "Group One" 1800cc cars, with hot cams & trick porting, a decal kit & special wheels. All of these were homologation specials for racing / rallying & were built to beat the 3.0 V6 Fords & E30 BMW's of the time. I should know, my cousin Robbi Smith used to race the E30 Shadowline lightweight Beemers and the 535i modifieds against the Alfa's & Fords.

Archivio Storico does not have proper production records as these were left up to the Assembly Plants to look after. Sadly the Rosslyn Records have not stood the test of time, but the CDA ones have & are actually just hand written records in hand ruled columns in what could be viewed as an A4 school exercise book.

I think "South Africa" has more than accurately described what went on after the Factory closed down & the economic reasons for the destruction of a lot of stuff - heck it happens today, at plants all over the world with unwanted / unused stuff in Bond.

There are Alfa Clubs in most of the major centres here & the Alfa Concourse is well supported.

Ciao
Greig
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post #29 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-10-2006, 06:02 AM
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AlfistiSA

Thanks for the photographs- it's been over 20 years since I have seen even photos of the Group 1. I used to have a holiday (student job) in one of the service only Alfa dealerships in Cape Town in the ealry 80's and saw the 3litre GTV6s and some of the other Alfas your described.

I was told that South Africa was supposedly the 2nd biggest sales market for Alfas after Italy at that stage and I (along with many others) was surprised when Alfa closed down their plant in SA. Of course, that was during the fiat takeover so who really knows the whys and wherefores.

One of the other (never substantiated) rumours as to the reasons behind the withdrawal of Alfa Romeo from SA was related to the US led arms embargo and sanctions against South Africa at the time. Of course, precious and other metals required by the US military were exempt from the sanctions but allegedly Alfa/Fiat South Africa were caught importing mechanical spares for the Aeromacchi (ie Fiat) Impala jet trainers used by the South African air force under the guise of Fiat car spares.

Brings back some memories.

Arguti
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post #30 of 156 (permalink) Old 10-10-2006, 06:53 AM
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<snip> but allegedly Alfa/Fiat South Africa were caught importing mechanical spares for the Aeromacchi (ie Fiat) Impala jet trainers used by the South African air force under the guise of Fiat car spares. <snip>

Shhhhhh, I've heard that rumour too, only I don't think it's just a rumour.......

Africa is not for sissies

Ciao
Greig
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