Scans of Fusi's Production Numbers (from "Tutte le Vetture dal 1910") - Page 5 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #61 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 02:10 PM
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Thanks! Is there any point in emailing the archive about this?
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post #62 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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It's always interesting to hear what information the archive has and is willing to supply you with.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #63 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-08-2014, 10:55 AM
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That is interesting. Mr. Fazio answered that given a chassis number they cannot provide me with a matching engine serial number (or the opposite). They can only confirm specs/history corresponding to numbers provided by me. Security reasons he said... hmm

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post #64 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-08-2014, 11:28 AM
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Privacy laws and common sense

Alfa Romeo records rarely tell us all that we would like to know. If they did, there would perhaps be no need for additional studies?

Privacy laws existing today in Italy prevent them from naming specific private owners.

Rules from the higher-ups forbid Marco from releasing engine numbers except under very specific circumstances. It is quite likely that this is in response to the collector car community's desire to see everything "numbers matching" as some sort of proof of originality. As someone who collects and shares such information relatively routinely in my own attempts to study the general and specific histories of many of these cars, I know there are risks in sharing too much information. Some folks accuse me of doing so. And they may well be correct?

As a rather generically simple example that has no relevance to any specific car, it is my presumption that Alfa Romeo does not wish to be responsible for informing you that engine "02345" was original to your chassis "01234". for more than one reason. The most important reason may be that they do not wish to be responsible at any level for the possibility that you may use this knowledge to stamp another engine with the number "02345" so as to pretend that your car is "matching numbers" ... when it is not. This sort of subterfuge has gone on for a very long time.

If you were to share the information that your car has engine "02346" (a typographical error in your query) and ask if it is original, I can think that it might be that you would receive one of two responses. The most likely response would indicate that the number does not correspond to the record of the car's build/delivery data. The other possible response might be rather more generic.

And again, I must remind one and all that the engine number ranges that were shared by Luigi Fusi in his charts (in a time period when this sort of information was thought of very differently than it is today) were generally accurate to a degree (aside from some layout errors) but there are many examples of specific deviations from those expectations ...which might never have become expectations if he had not shared that information in the first place.

John
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post #65 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-10-2014, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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Rules from the higher-ups forbid Marco from releasing engine numbers except under very specific circumstances.
FWIW, the records I've seen myself (for a very specific type of car) did not have any information about engine numbers in them. During my visit at the archive, I got a clear sense that Alfa must have purged some records over time -- especially production records that were only for managerial use and/or internal communications or notes and annotations that not necessarily fell under accounting rules and regulations and/or laws for information retention for tax audits and legal liability.

It appears Alfa kept only a bare minimum of records on hand. for reference. However, I was told that there is also a room full of presumably mostly technical documentation that has never been cataloged. This became apparent when I asked Marco about a specific engineering drawing of an engine (of which I had seen a copy somebody had obtained from Alfa Romeo in the 1960s), and Marco told me that he does not know of any such drawing, but maybe it is in the room with uncataloged documents.

The big risk with the uncataloged documentation is that Alfa Romeo management may at some point in time decide to get rid of it, or some souvenir hunters or thiefs may extract some historically significant pieces, at which point history is lost because the documentation is not recorded and therefore does not exist officially.

One way or the other, I believe we have to thank Fusi that the Centro Documentazione even exists in its current form. I had the impression that Marco is fighting hard to keep serving Alfisti well even with the constraints management is putting on him that seem to make providing such services increasingly difficult.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #66 of 78 (permalink) Old 03-06-2015, 10:24 AM
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hi all,

I found engine AR01560 or AR01580

6 or 8 is bad readable

does someone know from what car this is ?

rgds Franco
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post #67 of 78 (permalink) Old 03-06-2015, 11:09 AM
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AR01500 ???

If this is "AR01500*08884*" then it is probably a 2000 iniezione from the 1970's. I do not have enough data to be any more precise than that.

The person who stamped the number appears to have stamped the digit "5" a second time rather than switching back to the "0" number stamp. Since the prefix is not a part of the actual serial number, it was probably felt that there was no need to cancel the mistaken strike more thoroughly ... since it would seem that there was no such "Tipo" as "AR01550"?
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post #68 of 78 (permalink) Old 03-07-2015, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by iicarJohn View Post
If this is "AR01500*08884*" then it is probably a 2000 iniezione from the 1970's. I do not have enough data to be any more precise than that.

The person who stamped the number appears to have stamped the digit "5" a second time rather than switching back to the "0" number stamp. Since the prefix is not a part of the actual serial number, it was probably felt that there was no need to cancel the mistaken strike more thoroughly ... since it would seem that there was no such "Tipo" as "AR01550"?
You can read more about Alfa Nord engine no. here Engine numbers
However, your no. doesn't seem to corresponde to the type nos.
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post #69 of 78 (permalink) Old 03-07-2015, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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hi all,

I found engine AR01560 or AR01580

6 or 8 is bad readable

does someone know from what car this is ?

rgds Franco
Franco, I think it's worth asking the Centro Documentazione about this engine and see if they can shed some light on its specs and use.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #70 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 10:16 AM
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Trying to figure out engine number on 1973 2000 GTV

This GTV is a 115.01 US/CA delivered car. We believe the original motor is long gone..but not 100% sure.

I sent an email to Marco at Alfa, but he has recently changed jobs and the replacement said that it may be a couple months before they can get info due to a new website they are building.

I searched around and found data for 1972 and earlier.

Can someone please help me.

Here are the details:

1973 Alfa Romeo 2000 GTV
Built August 1973
Delivered new to California
VIN # AR3022589
ENG# AR01544*502230 (currently in car)
Color: Giallo Pieper (AR42)

Thank you.

Paul
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1978 Porsch 930 RSR aka Mad Cow (Rgruppe Toy)
1989 BMW 325is (daily driver)
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1984 Renault R5 Turbo II (just had to have it)
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1986 MB 190E-16v Cosworth (rare and affordable)
19?? Still looking for a nice GTV or Sprint
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post #71 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-27-2016, 02:49 AM
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Tubult's scans of chassis and engine numbers ends 1972. All 2000 cm3 engines built late 1971 and 1972 have type number 01500.XXXX
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post #72 of 78 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 06:21 PM
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I'm extending this long-running thread in hopes of some clarity...

I have two different engines with my 'barn find' spider - a '79 Veloce (USA - 115.41)

The engine numbers are:
AR01629*902003*
and
AR01615*A94721*

Can anyone help me learn whether either of these might be original to the car? Were 'ranges' of numbers used into the late 70's the way they were during earlier decades?

Thanks!
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post #73 of 78 (permalink) Old 01-11-2018, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by velocissimo View Post
I'm extending this long-running thread in hopes of some clarity...

I have two different engines with my 'barn find' spider - a '79 Veloce (USA - 115.41)

The engine numbers are:
AR01629*902003*
and
AR01615*A94721*

Can anyone help me learn whether either of these might be original to the car? Were 'ranges' of numbers used into the late 70's the way they were during earlier decades?

Thanks!
I'd say the second one, the '01615*A9 etc' is correct range for the 79 USA spider.

the '01629' seems to be a 75/77 spider or alfetta (again USA, spica injected)

Jim 'Papajam' is the man to ask to confirm.

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #74 of 78 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubut View Post
Please find attached an excerpt of Fusi's book "Tutte le Vetture dal 1910" (All cars from 1910) regarding production numbers.

Note: Fusi's book seems to have a number of errors. A better way to find out about your car is contacting the Alfa Romeo Historical Archive, as described here.
I see no "Attached Images". Have the attachments been lost or corrupted somehow?

[Edit: The problem seems to be with all posts in the AlfaBB forums. Is this a known problem associated with Chrome browser or some configuration thing? I've looked in the HTML and there's nothing but the heading in the attachments section]

Last edited by cliffordh; 01-10-2019 at 02:09 PM. Reason: problem is broader than I thought
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post #75 of 78 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cliffordh View Post
I see no "Attached Images". Have the attachments been lost or corrupted somehow?

[Edit: The problem seems to be with all posts in the AlfaBB forums. Is this a known problem associated with Chrome browser or some configuration thing? I've looked in the HTML and there's nothing but the heading in the attachments section]
Attachments pop right up for me.
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