Scans of Fusi's Production Numbers (from "Tutte le Vetture dal 1910") - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 78 (permalink) Old 05-26-2009, 07:42 PM
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Where can I obtain a copy of Fussi on CD??

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post #32 of 78 (permalink) Old 05-26-2009, 09:01 PM
 
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Where can I obtain a copy of Fussi on CD??

Regards
Jim

I'm not sure, as I haven't seen it available for at least 10 years. I got my copy directly from Elvira Ruocco who ran the archives until she retired...

I haven't seen it available from any source at all in at least 5 years. I sold my extra copy at least 3-4 years ago.


There is some info in this old thread:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...-friendly.html


Sorry I can't be of more help...

Last edited by dretceterini; 05-26-2009 at 09:10 PM. Reason: add info
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post #33 of 78 (permalink) Old 05-26-2009, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jg1053 View Post
Where can I obtain a copy of Fussi on CD??

Regards
Jim
I don't think the book is legally available on CD or DVD.

About 4-5 years ago, there was a guy in the Netherlands who sold on eBay DVDs with a scanned copy of the book and copies of pirated CarDisk CDs. Both seemed to be blatant violation of copyright laws. I haven't seen these DVDs being offered in a long time, so I assume he was shut down.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]

Last edited by tubut; 05-26-2009 at 09:26 PM.
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post #34 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-01-2010, 10:36 AM
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Numbers do not match.

This thread remains on the top by virtue of its sticky nature, and while the thread has been sleeping I'd like to wake it up with a pondering question.

My 2600 spider has a chassis number from 1964 and a Motore from 1965, according to Fusi.

Could this be a mistake==or are you thinking someone put a different engine in the car, but before you do know this. I bought the car in 1970 with 20,000 miles on it, and my brother has owned the car since I sold it to him in 1973,,,,,,,,Neither of us made a switch.

Hmmmmm.....another case of compromised data? I ordered Tabucchi's book on amazon ($219) and it will arrive soon.......but it may just perpetuate the mistake, if indeed it was.

I'd like to hear from other 2600 spider owners about their numbers.
Thanks RIckP

1964 Alfa 2600 Spider (undergoing restoration..), 1979 Jaguar XJ 12L, 1981 Ferrari 308 GTSi, 1986 Porsche Carrera (track car), 2002 Maserati Coupe, 2013 BMW X5 (daily driver)
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post #35 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 01:45 AM
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Morning.
I have a `1966` Giulia GT with VIN number which is AK753418. It is a Right hand Drive. How do I confirm the year model? I cannot find this number in the Fusi Production number.
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post #36 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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Morning.
I have a `1966` Giulia GT with VIN number which is AK753418. It is a Right hand Drive. How do I confirm the year model? I cannot find this number in the Fusi Production number.
I think the chassis number of your car probably starts with "AR" and not "AK" as you stated -- but the thickness of paint can lead to distortions in perception.

A quick glimpse at Fusi's list doesn't seem to list number you provided. I suggest you do two things:
1. Double-check the chassis number. If, necessary, use a wire wheel to remove any paint that may obscure details -- such as the "AK" vs. "AR" issue.
2. Send an e-mail to [email protected] asking about information about your chassis number. Although their response will include some legal language that will say it's not an authoritative answer, it's the best official unofficial answer you can get about your car.

Good luck,

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]

Last edited by tubut; 09-28-2010 at 02:26 AM.
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post #37 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 02:47 AM
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Aha. Just checked now. It starts with AR. AR753418. then my other GT Junior 1977 VIN number is AR2205321. I will mal them now to get the Unofficial official details.
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post #38 of 78 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 02:41 PM
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engine number

Engine number AR01629*904176* corresponds to what model? Can't find a thread to answer this question.

Thanks

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post #39 of 78 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 03:46 PM
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01629 engines were fitted to the 1975 & 1976 USA Alfettas as well as the 75-77 USA Spiders. Can't get any closer as I have no listings on a 9 prefixed sequential serial number (only 0 & 5 prefixes).

Jim

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post #40 of 78 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 09:10 PM
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Hey Jim,

So grateful, thanks for coming up with the info.

Mike

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post #41 of 78 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 02:28 PM
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Talking On 102 series, FUSI is ALWAYS wrong.

NEVER, I repeat, NEVER do the chassis numbers correspond to motor numbers on two liter 102 series Alfa models. The first 432 engines were actually left over 1900 blocks fitted with different heads and when the chassis components were finished the first available block was put into it. Only up to 1960 are the numbers both stamped on the firewall plate. Luckily, after 1959 the engine numbers are no longer stamped anywhere except on the engine itself.

That was even true of the 2000 sprint, the famous car designed by a young Giugaro for Bertone. For example, the show car on the Alfa stand at the Brussels Motor show which I recently acquired was hurried to completion on December 24, 1960 (one of five made the first year) especially for that show. FUSI says the 1960 cars should have chassis numbers 5 to 10 (but the car is AR10205*00019). He also says the engine should be between 1 and 10. At least on that he is correct. The engine is AR00205*00008. But on no sprints, just as on no spiders or sedans, were either chassis number or engine numbers assigned in sequence or direct relationships. And even on this very first (or almost very first) sprint the engine number is only on the engine (but strangely, used as the VIN number for the title when finally first sold in San Francisco). It also seems that Alfa would not necessarily assign chassis numbers as the vehicles were finished (at least not on the very first few that were on the first run), but when started. That may explain why some of the first completed cars had seemingly later chassis numbers. They had somehow ended up being finished before others with smaller numbers. Another example of that situation occurred on the Giulietta spider.
Attached Files
File Type: doc 2000 sprint info4.doc (25.5 KB, 525 views)

[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="
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"], seriously Alfa diseased and ancient OLD Two Liter Lover, put together Seattle area's Northwest Alfa Romeo Club in 1965, and still feebly tries to tend a teeny sacred flame to his serpent mistress in the [B]ALFA G'RAJ MAHAL[/B], a home garage temple with more Alfa cars and parts than he dare list because of the disapproval of his shamed and chagrined family. (425) 641-2600.

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post #42 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 04:53 AM
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2 liter head on a 1600 block?

Hello Safira,

The Giulia 1600 S was a type of which a little more than 2000 cars were built (check Fusi for the exact number). The car had the Giulia Super 1600 interior and the 1600 cc block (00526). But instead of the Giulia Super 1600's 2 carburettors, the Giulia S had one carburettor. As already said, the Giulia 1600 S was an emission version that was cheaper than the Giulia Super 1600. In my opinion, marketing reasons were the main drive behind this version. I have the partsmanual for the Giulia 1600 S but it is in storage and I can't reach it at the moment. Maybe we should discuss this further in the 'Sedan 1963 - 1974' chapter.

A 2 liter head on a 1600 block? The 2 liter has a bore of 84 mm while the 1.6 liter has a bore of 78 mm. Does a 2 liter head fit on a 1.6 liter block? The '2.0' mark doesn't mean that it is a 2 liter. Check the block for the distance between the waterpump and the head: 0 mm for 1300, 25 mm for the 1600, 40 mm for the 1750 and 2000. And check your head for one of the following marks or a partnumber.

Ciao, Olaf
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post #43 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 07:44 AM
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Re: Cylinder head marks 3 and 4. Do you know what the difference is?
I have a Euro Spider 1750, build 1970 (Sept. 2). I has an exchange engine (probably from a German engine rebuilder) with mark no. 4.
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post #44 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 08:23 AM
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Jay, et al,

I find myself slightly bothered by the descrepancies between Fusi and "Storico" on 102 cars. I recently had an exchange with Storico in which they offered that two cars with serial numbers near and above 00200 were built in 1958. Fusi would like us to believe that serial 00066 was the last 1958 car. Both cars now have exterior color different than Storico claims they were delivered with, and both current owners suggest that the current color is original, not that described by Storico. Of course, it is hard to be certain of what is "original", but one can often tell if a color has been changed.

I realize that enthusiasts like to have a single, unimpeachable reference for such things, and Storico appears to be the generally accepted reference. However, it seems to me that they may have their own departures from accuracy, against which we have no further right of appeal.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #45 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 01:05 PM
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Question Fusi has limitations. Storico ditto.

Don. One of the difficulties of car sold by Alfa Romeo prior to 1960 (especially on two liter, of which I am most experienced), is that many times the numbers of the motors, rather than Chassis numbers, ended up on records as the VIN (Vehicle Identification Number). And I am convinced that Storico uses the VIN numbers rather than chassis numbers so might have either. How can anyone expect consistency when things were never consistent in the first place. On Spiders Touring would made the bodies and a motor would be fitted. Remember the first 432 (or some number like that) were blocks identical to the late 1900 series. So, sometimes the number used in the reference is the chassis and for the very next car sold the engine number is used. REMEMBER THAT WHEN SELLING THE CAR THE DEALER WANTED TO SHOW IT AS THE NEWEST, NOT THE OLDEST. It always seemed strange to me after reading FUSI that my favorite spider has chassis AR 10204*00126 and engine AR 00204*00071 but was supposedly sold as a 1961. A car I once owned, but now in Sweden or Denmark was an early car with chassis No. AR 10204*000081 but was titled under the engine number 0020400450 (without either AR or asterick) as a 1959. I had to do a series of sworn documents to allow the car to be shipped into England, showing the the chassis number in relationship to the motor. Luckily both numbers were on the firewall plate. But the only rule is that THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY. I could give several more examples. Mrs. Hazel Rochestor thought she got from her friend, Hoffmann, of Hoffmann motors the very first two liter that came into the US. It was Chassis No. AR 10204*00017 (I still have the plate as well as the engine somewhere, but seem to recall the engine number as #47). Fusi has always been confusing because he always suggested that the first 15 numbers of two liters were reserved for special builders, and so I always thought the factory demonstrator I drove in 1960 had to be #16, but now I'm not so sure. Numbers were not important to me then and I never checked. Moreover, in the last ten years Drew Dawson of Friday Harbor, who buys and sells Alfa cars worldwide, had AR 10204*00012 for sale (he had to show me photos). I understand now that Alfa might complete some cars with higher numbers first and then as long as a couple years later start filling in between the numbers with later cars. Luckily, once the US in 1960 decided to use chassis number as the VIN, the numbering plates no longer were stamped with engine number -- just chassis number. From then on one can use whatever two liter engine for whatever car (at least if one keeps models consistent so as not to use spider engines in sedans or sprints or vice versa). Only those supposedly sold in 1959 or before have both engine number and chassis number on the plate on the firewall. OOPS, I guess I have to alert people as to numbers on Two liter Sprint. Fusi says the first year (1960) only ten were made -- AR 10205*00001 to AR 10205*00010. But that's just baloney. My sprint was the first car rushed close enough to completion on December 24, 1960 to be taken to Brussels for the January 19, 1961 Motor show. And the Chassis No is AR 10205*00019. The Vin, however, used the motor number AR 00205*00008 and the sales document says it was sold in 1962. I have read that quite commonly the Alfa factory would lay down a whole bunch of cars and work on them all at the same time, but not assign numbers in sequence. In fact with Giulietta spiders the first car is #15 (followed by #17 and #19). One more factoid, Adrian Ratcliff used to race "Piggy" a light blue two liter sprint AR 10205*00015 fitted with a 2600 engine that was specially sent to Vancouver by the Alfa factory because the doctor who ordered the car would not take delivery of it unless it had the newer and more powerful engine installed. No one knows where that two liter sprint engine went, nor does anyone know the number. And, finally, the engine of the only other two liter sprint still existing in the US is the one you and Bob Kabine, and Bob Thorne, et al saw and touched in Katy Texas near Austin. It does not have a sprint engine because someone took it (and its transmission) and fitted it to a white series three 1900 Touring Sprint a long time ago before anyone was the least interested it that car. I was informed that someone took the engine and transmission to put in a spider, but that's not so. I have just recently seen that white 1956 1900 sprint couple advertised for sale in Astoria New York (it did not sell), and more recently found on my email history from years and years ago that I also had received a PM from the previous owner who was wondering why he could not stop the oil leak at the rear of the top of the block. Same picture; same car. He was going to put on yet another head gasket, and I suggested he try laying down a silicon bead around the rear holes on the top of the block where the oil from the head passes back into the crankcase. No head gasket has metal crush inserts for there, and I know of no other way to stop that leak. Sorry to ramble, but didn't you say you have the leak problem. Try that when you replace the head gasket. It works. But don't fret Storico and Fusi. I have yet a third source, a massive two volume set by Stefano d'Amioco and Maurizio Tabucchi called "La vetture di produzione dal 1910 (ALFA ROMEO - Production carsa from 1910) which seems to bear hardly any resemblance to car numbers I have seen through the years although it does give numbers made over the years showing (1) hardly any consistent sequences, and (2) NO ACKNOWLEDGMENT of the fact that the chassis number and the motor numbers were always different and that the factory sometimes used one for VIN and sometimes the other. Frankly, if anyone ever shows up with both chassis number and engine number identical you know that can only be attributed to the skill of the uninformed using numbering tools. I have no idea why there is such consistently incorrect claim of "matching numbers" can come from. And I can't find either my chassis number or my motor number in the newest expensive book. Seems two liter cars were never all that great as to be kept track of. The books seems to suggest there was a big shake up in the management of Alfa in January 1959 and one of the famous engine designers left. Yet, it is so frustrating. In this book the authors claim that they have the original books showing who the cars were sold to and the numbers under which they were sold. Beware, once again, that one day the VIN used the car's chassis number, and the next day someone used motor number of the next one sold. I can think of no other explanation. Jay

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