What Alfa is it? - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #46 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-26-2006, 05:25 AM Thread Starter
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Hi to all!

Yesterday I was there, at the Luzzago auction.
The car is, in real view, very very nice, but it's an '80 design exercise on an original 1900 mechanics.

Sold by a telephon foreign offer at 91000 euro.
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post #47 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-26-2006, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterHendricks
I do like this car [the coupe], and its builder was much more sensitive in his selection of components and style of construction than has been shown by others.

Some quick observations. I like 1900's :

Once again, this is not one of the two Alfa 1900 chassis illustrated in the Gilco book or on their website. It "fails" the first test, in that the engine is not placed far forwards like in the two Gilco chassis, but is [better] moved behind the front crossmember. The crossmember is cut from a standard 1900 unibody, and then welded into the tube frame. This isn't how Gilco, or Alfa, did it. The frame tube configuration is also different from the two Gilco frames [or the C52 frame for that matter].

The engine is probably a 1900 Super, 1975 cc. The accessories suggest that it might be a berlina motor. The cylinder head is: 1/ wonderful 2/ not Conrero, I think.

Conrero made twin plug cylinder heads first for the 1900 and later for his 1500cc Giulietta-based F1 motors, and both long before the GTA.* Difficult, the work of a magician, especially back then.

But the two plug Conrero heads were made differently than this one. And this one started out on a standard Super twin chain motor. Conrero used Ing. Landsberg's TI camshaft profiles, even on his ~150 hp race engines, and these camshafts required the use of the early engine's geared primary drive.

The twin chain motors had a different firing order, and the 102 series "2000" motors and some of the very last 1900 heads had the "1243" cast into the chain housing. The engine appears to be a very late 1900, but then the front brakes are very early 1900.

So there are a few funky details, which mar the impression. And the 105 cam cover bolts gotta go. Etc. ... Etc.

This is not to say that the car is not interesting, even wonderful. And it isn't completely misrepresented by the seller. I'm just trying to clear up some unnecessarily misleading comments printed here, and to add some details that are there to be seen.

--Carter

* The 1900 engine is based on that of the 6C3000 prototype. and the factory 6C3000CM race engines had twin ignition. The relationship between Conrero and Alfa and some of the people at Alfa is ambiguous.
I am under the impression that the car pictured is some sort of modern "replicar", but using 1900 components and a modern tube chassis; the car having been built in the 1960s or 1970s.

There are other similar "Conrero" spiders, and as far as I am aware, only one 1900 based car is "real"; the one with the bubble canopy (now missing) that was a rebody of the Fehlman Ghia 1900 Supersonica Conrero coupe that ran in the 1953 MM. The rebodied car ran in the 1954 MM, and still exists, but is missing the canopy. A picture of the car is in my alfa "specials" article that was in Het K about 10 years ago; in Hot Rod, and also in the Conrero book (which is now almost impossible to find. The coachwork is supposed to be designed by someone who I don't know anything about, named Koren, but built by Ghia.

As far as I am aware, the others are all "replicars", in the mode of the 1900 coupe that was sold for 91,000 Euros at the Luzzago auction. Most look they have "period" Colli coachwork, but I don't know which "modern" coachbuilder did any or all of them.

There have been cars of the "genre" for sale from time to time at www.classicscars.com; Mr.Olczyk's web site. I am just stating an OPINION that they are "replicars", as I do NOT know for certain.

Does anyone know what the 1955 Giulietta sprint (lot #24) actually sold for?

Thanks,
Stu
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post #48 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-26-2006, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Lot #24, Giulietta Sprint light blue, showroom contitions, very nice.
27000 euro, telephon foreign offer.
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post #49 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-26-2006, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dretceterini
I am under the impression that the car pictured is some sort of modern "replicar", but using 1900 components and a modern tube chassis; the car having been built in the 1960s or 1970s.
of course... but finished later than that. Interesting concept: a replica of something that did not ever exist.

I was simply answering your speculation somewhere that here might be one of the the fascinating frames from the Gilco book, and trying to answer the provenance of some of the parts. And maybe provide some tools for viewing. I do like to look and investigate before writing

--Carter

Pretty? I think the Corto Gara is much more handsome, but it has become a friend and I am biased. The last few Zagatos are beautiful, the early ones are brutish.
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post #50 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-26-2006, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juniorz
Lot #24, Giulietta Sprint light blue, showroom contitions, very nice.
27000 euro, telephon foreign offer.

hi do u have any idea what the 3 alfa (guilia + guilietta) went for?
any website we can refer to?
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post #51 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-26-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dretceterini
I am under the impression that the car pictured is some sort of modern "replicar", but using 1900 components and a modern tube chassis; the car having been built in the 1960s or 1970s.

There are other similar "Conrero" spiders, and as far as I am aware, only one 1900 based car is "real"; the one with the bubble canopy (now missing) that was a rebody of the Fehlman Ghia 1900 Supersonica Conrero coupe that ran in the 1953 MM. The rebodied car ran in the 1954 MM, and still exists, but is missing the canopy. A picture of the car is in my alfa "specials" article that was in Het K about 10 years ago; in Hot Rod, and also in the Conrero book (which is now almost impossible to find. The coachwork is supposed to be designed by someone who I don't know anything about, named Koren, but built by Ghia.

As far as I am aware, the others are all "replicars", in the mode of the 1900 coupe that was sold for 91,000 Euros at the Luzzago auction. Most look they have "period" Colli coachwork, but I don't know which "modern" coachbuilder did any or all of them.

There have been cars of the "genre" for sale from time to time at www.classicscars.com; Mr.Olczyk's web site. I am just stating an OPINION that they are "replicars", as I do NOT know for certain.

Does anyone know what the 1955 Giulietta sprint (lot #24) actually sold for?

Thanks,
Stu
Stu is right, I don t sell Hyundai at classicscars.com SORRY
Regards
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post #52 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-28-2007, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olczyk View Post
Stu is right, I don t sell Hyundai at classicscars.com SORRY
Regards

Now connected to this new thread:


http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/1900...tml#post440961
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post #53 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 04:43 AM
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In Italy, a bumper catalogue included such rarities as the unusual 1968 ATL Alfa Romeo-powered sports coupé you can see above.
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post #54 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olczyk View Post
Stu is right, I don t sell Hyundai at classicscars.com SORRY
Regards

If you didn't try and pass off these cars as period built, rather than modern cars using period components, there would be no problem.
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