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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Auto Delta McLaren M6B?

I just joined this site so that someone could possibly help me with something. At Mid Ohio's vintage event in June, the ex-Auto Delta McLaren M6B was there. I know that it was used to test the T-33 engine. Does anyone know if there is a way to contact Alfa to find out who drove the car? Does anyone have any other info?

This is a picture of the car I took at Mid Ohio:




Thank you!
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 03:18 PM
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This is very interesting. It just doesn't make sense. Autodelta already made a car that was very competitive. Alfas didn't run can-am during the m6b days I don't recall I'm sure someone will clairify this. And the Chevy engine was much, much bigger in displacement.

I don't know. Stranger things have happened. Curious to see if anyway has heard of this car
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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I'll clarify something. The car is a McLaren by Trojan. After McLaren stopped making the car, they sent everything (I think) to Trojan to build. The crew member for the car said it was used by Alfa and another site has verified that as well.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by velocealfa View Post
This is very interesting. It just doesn't make sense. Autodelta already made a car that was very competitive. Alfas didn't run can-am during the m6b days I don't recall I'm sure someone will clairify this. And the Chevy engine was much, much bigger in displacement.

I don't know. Stranger things have happened. Curious to see if anyway has heard of this car
I have heard it said that Chiti purchased a McLaren chassis to investigate the current best practice of aluminium monocoque chassis construction when considering the next step forward for T33/3 development from the old original dual side tube pontoon construction of the T33/2.
I imagine this could be quite likely since Autodelta had no previous experience with this.
It would be interesting to see if there is any dates of Autodelta ownership of the McLaren, as the first of the monocoque T33 chassis appeared to be tested at Bolocco in early '69, so one would assume 12 months lead time to study then design and build their own chassis.
Vince.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by KidRoberts View Post
I just joined this site so that someone could possibly help me with something. At Mid Ohio's vintage event in June, the ex-Auto Delta McLaren M6B was there. I know that it was used to test the T-33 engine. Does anyone know if there is a way to contact Alfa to find out who drove the car? Does anyone have any other info?

This is a picture of the car I took at Mid Ohio:

Thank you!
I don't know if this helps but -- SportsCar Digest identifies it as Robert Bodins's 1968 McLaren M6B

SVRA Mid-Ohio Vintage Grand Prix 2012 - Results and Photos

"Notable entrants at the 2012 Mechanics Bank Vintage Grand Prix of Mid-Ohio included ... 1968 McLaren M6B of Robert Bodin; .... among others."



Looking at an entry list from Road America -- Bodin lists his hometown as Spring Park, MN. in car #22.
http://www.roadamerica.com/userfiles...%209%20PDF.pdf

Bob

Last edited by raff; 12-06-2012 at 08:29 PM.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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That seems to be the owner. I searched his name and he also drove the Brabham in the background.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 11:52 AM
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This is probably the car the Charlie Gibson{Sasco Sports} showed me about 15 years ago.
He told me that the bill of sale was straight from Autodelta. Charlie died a few years ago, but Dave Handy at Sasco Sport might be able to fill in some early history. I believe they bought it to "look" at the construction. Not sure about running it with a 33 engine.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 12:34 PM
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This is news seen from this side of the Atlantic= never heard of, but interesting if its possible to substantiate the story!

From this side its known that the Tipo 33/3 TT (Telaio Tubolare=Tube chassis) also called Tipo Tedesco=German type, arrived in 1971 and was inspired by the Porsche 908/3. The german influence.

Possibly they looked at american racers also? But rather went along the Porsche construction?

G.K.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 04:20 PM
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This is news seen from this side of the Atlantic= never heard of, but interesting if its possible to substantiate the story!

From this side its known that the Tipo 33/3 TT (Telaio Tubolare=Tube chassis) also called Tipo Tedesco=German type, arrived in 1971 and was inspired by the Porsche 908/3. The german influence.

Possibly they looked at american racers also? But rather went along the Porsche construction?

G.K.
The Tipo 33/3 was the first of the 3-litre engine series and first appeared in '69. It had an aluminium "tub" type monocoque chassis, and this is supposed to be what A/delta studied the McLaren chassis for. A/delta used this alloy tub chassis for '70 and '71 seasons, including the Brands Hatch, Targa Florio and Watkins Glen outright victories against Ferrari and Porsche in '71.
The 33TT tube chassis of '72 season was not sucessful and was said to be lighter but much more unstable in the handling due to flexing.
(BTW, McLaren himself was a NewZealander and was based in England, mostley with NZ and Australians working for the team at that time. The cars for the US Can Am were built and generally well-tested and sorted in the UK before the season, which in part explains why the McLarens were so successful.)
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 05:06 PM
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Wow, Tiger Racing showing Tipo 33TT3 at historic racing with professional driver Paul Brown! Gives a new perspective of this car!

PS. Vince as you know the tubolare chassis was continued with the then new 3L 12 cyl Boxer as the 33TT12. And this one won championships. So they got the tubes right eventually!

Tiger Racing, Paul Brown Tipo 33 - YouTube

G.K.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 04:36 AM
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Wow, Tiger Racing showing Tipo 33TT3 at historic racing with professional driver Paul Brown! Gives a new perspective of this car!

PS. Vince as you know the tubolare chassis was continued with the then new 3L 12 cyl Boxer as the 33TT12. And this one won championships. So they got the tubes right eventually!

Tiger Racing, Paul Brown Tipo 33 - YouTube

G.K.
Yes Gabor, true the 33TT12 did win a championship, but maybe a case of a good team and great engine over the chassis!
Autodelta then made a new monocoque tub chassis 33SC12 for the 12 cyl engine to overcome the flexing....
PS, I have persuaded Joe Nastase to bring his 33SC12 and a 33/2 over here to Australia for the Phillip Island Classic historic races in March. We have never had a 12C 33 here before and wait with anticipation for what it should sound like!!
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 12:52 PM
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Autodelta McLaren

I think that all the manufacturers were looking at each others cars.
I just finished re-reading Mark Donohue's "Unfair Advantage".
When Penske and Donohue were working with Porsche developing the 917-10 for CanAm, they borrowed a year old McLaren and flew it to Porsche in Germany for them to look at. The Porsche race engineers measured and tested the car and even opened up the monocoque to see if there was any space frame tubing inside.
In the mid 90's, I went to North Carolina to look at a Type 33-3 that had an aluminum tube chassis. Joe Nastasi persuaded me not to buy it because it was very flexible. He said that Autodelta tried aluminum and then switched to steel tubing. I think that Ed McDonough's Type 33 book talks about some of this.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-31-2013, 08:39 AM
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I haven't re-done the research, but I'm pretty sure there was a McLaren F1 car with an Alfa V8, at least briefly, wasn't there?
Car and chassis makers tried all kinds of engine in period, for competitive, financial, strategic, alliance, other reasons. Not all worked out.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-31-2013, 09:43 AM
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Yes, I can confirm that!

Alfa ran McLaren F1 with the V8 32V engine in 1970. The cars were models M7D and M14D. Driver Andrea de Adamich.

Here you have the results:

http://www.oldracingcars.com/f1/car.php?CarID=M7D/1

http://www.oldracingcars.com/f1/car.php?CarID=M14D/1

This was actually the year after the Tipo33/3 prototype was introduced (69). Question above was if the McLaren M6B had any influence on this first 33 chassis.
The follow on 33/3 TT with tube chassis was influenced by the Porsche 908/3 chassis as mentioned earlier.

G.K.

Last edited by Gabor K.; 02-01-2013 at 09:32 AM.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-31-2013, 09:52 AM
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Yes, that's my recollection. I'm guessing De Adamich was the go-between McLaren and Alfa? A lot of history can be explained by relationships.

Andrew
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