Alfa Romeo technological innovations - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-21-2003, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Tubolare Zagato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Greece
Posts: 428
Alfa Romeo technological innovations

Could anyone make a "list" of technological innovations by Alfa Romeo over the years at racing and road cars? Thanks in advance!!!

Theo
Alfa Romeo 2000 GT Veloce, 22 July 1971, #1803
+ an Echidna into my mind...
Tubolare Zagato is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-30-2003, 03:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Porto - Portugal
Posts: 73
I remember some, but I can investigate further...

The variable geometry Turbo was developed by Alfa Romeo and Avio on the 80's

The water part in competition was first used on the GTA SA, and invented by Carlo Chitti and then vulgarized (a small part of water mixed with gasoline to improve combustion by increasing Oxygen)

I believe that the Tipo 512, from 1940 with its central 12 boxer engine is a car 40 years in advanced. This configuration was only used again in the 80's. It was also the GP with the least stroke, 5.4mm

Also in design the Alfa Romeo advances had made the difference during the years, like the hidden rear door handle on the 156, now followed by the other constructors...

Tomé Coelho
[b]Fábrica Italiana - TRsport[/b]
tome coelho is offline  
post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-30-2003, 06:59 AM
Registered User
 
ar1750gtv's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 615
I'm not sure these were "firsts", but definately very early on production cars:

1. Rear Transaxel.

2. Variable Valve timing.

How many cars today have VVT?

'69 1750 GTV
Cogito, ergo Alfa Romeo
ar1750gtv is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-14-2003, 11:01 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: east TN
Posts: 123
as far as VVT goes...
as far as I know:
BMW
Audi
VW
Porsche
Mercedes
Seat
Honda
Alfa
those I know for sure..... there might be many others though
mtiso is offline  
post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-14-2003, 11:06 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: east TN
Posts: 123
how about:

all aluminum engine block
water cooled sleeves
???
mtiso is offline  
post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2004, 12:51 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 23
Send a message via AIM to JohnnyLunchBox
"hemi" heads

dual overhead camshafts

5 speeds as opposed to the early ubiquitous 4 speeds

anyone....anyone?

'89 Graduate
JohnnyLunchBox is offline  
post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2004, 01:25 PM
Registered User
 
GianniB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 738
Check this out. Granted it's only for US patents from 1976 on, but interesting none the less...

John
'73 GTV - Owned 24 years
GianniB is offline  
post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-25-2004, 02:18 PM
Banned
 
dretceterini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 6,139
hemi heads

the inventor of the hemispherical head was Roselli, the main engineer of the Bimotore, and who was in the aeronautical department for most of his time at Alfa
dretceterini is offline  
post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2004, 04:57 AM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
conedriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 3,524
"the inventor of the hemispherical head was Roselli, the main engineer of the Bimotore, and who was in the aeronautical department for most of his time at Alfa"


DRETCETERINI, I'm working from memory here, but wasn't the first use of the classic cross flow / hemi head / dual overhead cam layout on a 1913 Puegeot race car?. I was of the opionion that all later designs; Bugatti, Miller, etc were based on this. Did this preceed the Alfa aero work by Roselli?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

George Schweikle

1976 Spider (Dedicated Autocrosser, "SPICA, No Carbs")
1991 Spider Veloce (Retirement cruiser)
Scuderia Non Originale
conedriver is offline  
post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2004, 11:56 AM
Registered User
 
alfa_chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,284
Garage
Nissan Pathfinder has the same design in the late 80s, early 90s??

Quote:
Originally Posted by tome coelho
Also in design the Alfa Romeo advances had made the difference during the years, like the hidden rear door handle on the 156, now followed by the other constructors...
alfa_chan is offline  
post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2004, 04:22 PM
Banned
 
dretceterini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 6,139
Roselli was the one to come up with domed, rather than flat top pitons and with the "curved" combusion chamber, circa 1905.
dretceterini is offline  
post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-08-2004, 07:56 PM
Registered User
 
alfaloco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lexington, Kentucky USA
Posts: 2,059
Garage
If you are fortunate enough to be able to talk to a WWII fighter pilot, he may tell you that certain high performance aircraft (e.g., the P-51 Mustang) had water injection technology for high altitude performance compensation.

Dave Jarman

alfaloco
Lexington, KY USA
alfaloco is offline  
post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-16-2004, 09:28 AM
Registered User
 
gtv2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 872
Not only was water injection a common feature of WWII fighter engines (for instance, German Daimler-Benz engines on Messerschmitt used a methanol/water injection called MW50 - it did provide more oxygen at high altitude and allowed higher compression since water vaporization takes energy and thus temperature away from the air-fuel mix - see for instance http://w1.1861.telia.com/~u186104874/db605.htm , "Note on MW50" under the "performance chart"), but the GTA SA actually didn't use it. However, it's true that the system had been designed and experimented at Alfa on an earlier oil-pump supercharged engine, under responsability of Ing. Surace. It came back on the motorsport scene with F1 Turbos in the early 80s.

And indeed twin-overhead camshaft first appeared on the GP Peugeot designed by Henry in 1912. There was even there a precedent. I don't remember the name, but I have a picture of a huge (I mean 1.5 meter high!) boat engine from the very first years of the XXth century with DOHC!

The Alfa GP1914 not only had DOHC, but also 4-valves per cylinder AND twin-spark! You see what I mean...

Among the very innovations on production Alfas, one can spot the first alloy housing for final drive, on the 1900. When Alfa sent to Gleason in the US the 1900 diff case to have suitable gears fitted in, Gleason sent it back with accompanying letter saying" we are afraid you used the wrong metal for your final drive case", and Alfa had to insist they really intended to make it that way.

The other is indeed VVT, developped to cope with US emission laws without sacrifying the engine temperament. I would say first put into production in 1984, but that could as well be the first european-market application, with the first US model having been earlier. The US authorities calling Alfa to announce that at first try, the car was not eligible with the new norms, at the same time congratulated for having followed a way that didn't kill the original engine features.

On the racing scene, possibly was Jano the first to drive the (Roots type) supercharger with an intermediate gearing instead of directly from the crankshaft, back on the P2 in 1924. It allowed to adapt the supercharger speed to track requirement (er, a marginal improvement), but mostly it reduced losses and heating.

Last edited by gtv2000; 11-16-2004 at 09:35 AM.
gtv2000 is offline  
post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-16-2004, 11:14 AM
Registered User
 
othercarsaford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 657
I think wet sleeve internal combustion engines were around before Alfa started using them. For example, I know that Curtiss used wet sleeves in an aircraft engine as early as the end of WWI. Interestingly, Glenn Curtiss said he liked that design because of (a) its light weight, (b) its ability to operate at full throttle for long periods of time without overheating (i.e., in combat situations), and (c) it was infinitely rebuildable. However, its drawback was the expense associated with manufacturing the motor and its complicated design affecting its reliability. Sounds familiar, although I think our Alfa motors are very reliable as a design.

Also, diesel engines have utilized wet sleeves for decades.
othercarsaford is offline  
post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-16-2004, 07:52 PM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 11,413
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Quote:
Originally Posted by tome coelho
I believe that the Tipo 512, from 1940 with its central 12 boxer engine is a car 40 years in advanced. This configuration was only used again in the 80's. It was also the GP with the least stroke, 5.4mm
Auto Union did this successfully a few years earlier ... and they actually raced theirs

Please also explain the stroke comment. If you are refering to 5.4mm piston stroke ... impossible. Also please remember the BRM 1.5 v16 that surely would have smaller bore/stroke dimensions.

Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PSk; 11-16-2004 at 07:57 PM.
PSk is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome