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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-04-2011, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jordi aragvalls View Post
Hi all,

Does anybody know other photos or references about the Spider Sport Pininfarina?

Was it a unique car that became the one in Schlumpf ?

Even some photos about the Schlumpf car would be very helpful, as I plan to build the Klaxon kit, and I don't have too much info about it...

Best regards
Jordi
You are correct in assuming that the Pinin Farina Spider was a unique car and that it was converted to the coupe. Not by Pinin Farina by the way, but by a coach builder called Martin somewhere after 1947.

There are plenty of pictures to be found of the Schlumpf car, as Olaf's links show. The Spider is a different story. The photo earlier in this thread is the only one I've ever seen on the internet. Some books contain one or more photos, like Le Alfa Romeo di Vittorio Jano, the Fusi bible and the Immortal 2.9.

These photos show the Spider in a rather light colour, definitely not red as I assumed earlier in this thread. There's an interesting phrase concerning the Spider colour in the Immortal 2.9: "The Swiss customs records show that the car was imported into Switserland on 21 November 1947. The weight was recorded as 1370 Kgs with four seats and painted light blue with blue leather upholstery."

I have this kit too. I'm glad you triggered me into looking up this information before starting to build it
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-04-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Alfavaganza View Post
You are correct in assuming that the Pinin Farina Spider was a unique car and that it was converted to the coupe. Not by Pinin Farina by the way, but by a coach builder called Martin somewhere after 1947.

There are plenty of pictures to be found of the Schlumpf car, as Olaf's links show. The Spider is a different story. The photo earlier in this thread is the only one I've ever seen on the internet. Some books contain one or more photos, like Le Alfa Romeo di Vittorio Jano, the Fusi bible and the Immortal 2.9.

These photos show the Spider in a rather light colour, definitely not red as I assumed earlier in this thread. There's an interesting phrase concerning the Spider colour in the Immortal 2.9: "The Swiss customs records show that the car was imported into Switserland on 21 November 1947. The weight was recorded as 1370 Kgs with four seats and painted light blue with blue leather upholstery."

I have this kit too. I'm glad you triggered me into looking up this information before starting to build it
Hi

Thanks a lot for the information ! I think this story is becoming more and more interestig and, at least to me, I'm still more puzzled... I'm not sure if the light blue color described by swiss customs would match with the available photo of this car (in my opinion, it should appear lighter, but don't know...). The four seats described are another enigma... the klaxon kit comes with two seats only, and there isn't too much space for another row. Translating the kit scale in real dimensions, the distance between the seats and the bonnet covers is only aprox about 35 cm... If anyone could bring more info or share some other photo of the Pininfarina Spider that would be great

Best regards
Jordi
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-04-2011, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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True, on the photos in the Immortal 2.9 the Spider has two clearly distinctive shades of grey, a darker one and a lighter one. The photo in this thread is like the darker one. Apparently the car had another colour before the light blue.

Speaking of the photo in this thread, one can't possibly imagine four seats under that small hood. The kit seems to be accurate there, but then why were four seats mentioned in the customs records? The Coupe does have four seats (the kit too), but apparently the chassis was lengthened in the conversion process. Maybe some conversion was already done when the car was imported in Switserland?

I have the Immortal 2.9 revised edition, but i'm hesitant to scan the photos and post them here. However, if you PM me your email address, I'd be happy to send them by email.

Last edited by Alfavaganza; 01-04-2011 at 05:27 PM.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2011, 12:14 PM
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Spider Pininfarina

Hi,

I asked the Centro Documentazione Alfa Romeo about the Spider Pininfarina, and they told me that the production data about this car were destroyed in 1944, during the second world war bombing in Milan. Really bad news, as I dont' know if will be possible to know the original color of this car.

The only reference in the web I found about this car is in the Pininfarina web page, where it's called Spider Sport Aerodinamico:
http://http://www.pininfarina.com/in...zioni/collAlfa

Last edited by jordi aragvalls; 01-22-2011 at 12:16 PM. Reason: complete information
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 07:05 AM
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I'm refreshing this thread just to show this page from a period magazine.
The identification of this car is still controversial, because the same magazine reports it as 2300 in the PF stand at the 1937 Milan motor show, as 2900 in the AR stand at the 1937 Paris motor show, as 2900 during the King's visit to the Libian colony....
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 01:47 PM
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6c2300b

The advertisement is correct ... But they aren't always!

Photo captions often are not correct in major or minor details. Sometimes photos are moved for "artistic layout" reasons ... and the captions fail to follow them.
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 07:05 AM
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Another proof.
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 03:21 AM
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Does somebody have some more information or pictures about this Alfa ? Most probably was bodied by Stabilimenti Farina around 1937/38, but I've just seen these photos so far...
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 09:14 AM
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Chassis 412028, first registered July 1938 to Alfa Romeo. It was advertised December 1950 in Road & Track magazine and was their Salon car in the October, 1951 issue. I don't have Simon Moore's "Immortal 2.9" books here with me to give his study results, but my notes show it was first sold to Giovanni (Nino) Farina and the Stabilimenti Farina body may have replaced another? I recall seeing the car during the 1970's in the Harrah collection in Reno, Nevada. Somewhere, I have a photograph that I took as a teenager of the "Stabilimenti Farina" script on the side. Unfortunately, I still do not know the body number.
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 12:59 PM
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2900B Stabilimenti Farina

And some more images of Stabilimenti Farina models... They come with an FB kit to assembly a model. Most probaly the first one is the chassis 412028, but any other information/images would help

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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordi aragvalls View Post
And some more images of Stabilimenti Farina models... They come with an FB kit to assembly a model. Most probaly the first one is the chassis 412028, but any other information/images would help
I looked up the 2nd Edition of Simon Moore's "The Immortal 2.9", which describes 412028 on 7 pages (p. 254-260) with 13 pictures (sorry, I don't feel at liberty to reproduce them here). None of the 3 pictures shown in post #25 above are in Simon's book, but I get the impression that all 3 pictures are of the same car, namely 412028, at different points in its life.

Picture #2 seems to be the earliest picture -- when the car still had the original front bumper with a very characteristic V-shape below the radiator grille. On p.256, Simon shows a picture taken from a slightly different angle -- a picture that I believe to be from the same photo shoot.

Picture #3 shows the car when it was auctioned off in Tommy Lee's estate sale in 1950 with a different bumper and the spats removed/altered. The same picture appears quite small in a September 1950, Road & Track ad that describes the car as being with "new grey paint and blue leather upholstery" (the ad is reprinted on p.443 of Simon Moore's book).

Picture #1 probably shows the car in about December 1950 (or maybe in 1951), when it was owned by Peter Satori, who advertised it as "re-painted in Alfa red." Simon's book shows the car with same license number presumably in Tommy Lee grey (p.257) and red (p.258), and he describes the car as being featured on the cover of the October 1951 issue of Road & Track, with a story inside. A credit in the legend of the picture on p.258 gives me the impression that this picture (presumably the car in the b/w picture being red) may be from this Road & Track article.

The car changed hands and colors again (this time to a what appears to be a dark blue) when it was shown in 1995 at Pebble Beach and in 1996 at Villa d'Este. Simon mentions the car was shown on p.25 of the November, 1995 issue of Classic & Sports Car magazine.

Furthermore, Simon mentions the car was shown in the November 1938 issue of Alfa Corse (wrongly described as a "Mille Miglia" model) and, with color pictures, on p.400-401 of Automobile Quarterly, Winter 1965.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 11:37 PM
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Reminder: A Certificato d'Origine could be issued for a chassis or a completed car, not necessarily at the same time that we all might agree that we might consider that a completed car actually existed in that moment. A "Certificato d'Origine" was a legal document that can carry more than one meaning. There are some records that recorded the origin date of the chassis on the day when it was declared sold to the first owner or dealer, sometimes a coachbuilder. Sometimes there will be the date of the declared origin of a body and then perhaps the date of its sale to the first owner (or dealer) and then (sometimes) another date when the whole package was confirmed as being a "car" according to the legal definition in the minds of those who were present to make such a declaration. There are many more instances (statistically) when the whole process was simplified in the PRA (Pubblico Registro Automobilistico) records. So, we can often learn something about the origins of a car from documents that do not begin to describe the complexities that were possible.

I have had a chance now to review the recorded history as reported by Simon Moore.

412028 was first registered on 14 July 1938 to Alfa Romeo with a "Certificato d"Origine" date issued one day earlier. This may be misleading? Alfa Romeo could issue a Certificato d'Origine for any number of reasons and an Italian bureaucrat merely might have signed off on it for any number of reasons. On 24 July, the completed car attended the German Gran Prix at Nurburgring. Clearly, the car was not just a chassis on 13 July or 14 July!

412038 was next owned legally by Giuseppe "Nino" Farina" beginning 31 January 1939 who sold it on in a short time (the sale date recorded as 20 April 1939) to the next owner. Bureaucratic records were not always precise and it can be difficult to read the hand-written notes accurately, even when we can believe that the notes were trying to be precise.

So, we have anecdotal evidence that photos exist showing the car 24 July 1938 in the same general form in which it exists today, most recently reported as living in California. There is no reason to believe the car had a life prior to the form it has had since July 1938, but earlier history remains possible, even if that history would have to have been quite brief.

Perhaps not what a model-maker is seeking to learn?
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 12:04 PM
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Hi tubut and iicarJohn, thanks a lot for your help on this !

Any information is very valuable for me. I was trying to understand how many different farina's were done and if the images belonged to different models or they were from the same unit, as it seems after reading your posts. I'm a modeller, that's true, but I try to reproduce as much as possible a model that really existed, and as far as I can, I try to avoid mistakes as some times I detect in the kits. Going back in history, sometimes it's difficult to build them accurate, though... and in addition to that, I'm an Alfa fan, as my family has own some Alfas along time :-)
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 08:25 PM
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FWIW, there seem to other cars with "Farina" body (although Pinin Farina, not Stabiliment Farina):
  • 412004 (that Simon Moore calls 412004bis), first raced as a botticella, then lengthened and re-bodied by Pinin Farina as convertible in 1938/38 (shown on p.340 of Fusi's book "Tutte le vetture..."), then converted to a Coupe in the late 1940s or early 1950s and is now in the Schlumpf collection in France.
  • 412012 was also a race car, lengthened and re-bodied by Pinin Farina as convertible, presumably around 1939/40, and last seen 2005 at Pebble Beach.
These two cars look quite different from 412028 (or maybe the other way around).

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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