For Sale 1955 & 1974 & 1969 gtv @ rm - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 05:52 AM
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What did these GTV's sell for with commission?

I love the blue one...

Mark
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRONBLOCK View Post
What did these GTV's sell for with commission?

I love the blue one...

Mark
i was wondering the same... the gtv estimates seem awfully optimistic.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 01:56 PM
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The ‘74 sold for $71,680 including buyers premium and the ‘69 $117,600 including buyers premium.

Jimmy G. -1976 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 08:39 PM
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Any thoughts on the results? Anyone see these cars?

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 12:08 AM
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Here is a list I put together 8 months ago, see red highlighted text. The sale price seems to in the bounds. My LHD cars lists do not specify with or with out a leather interior, I may have thought it had no effect at the time for LHD cars, I'm not sure. Obviously now I do think it would've had an effect if it had the correct leather Bertone DeLuxe interior. The cost to reinstate correct leather Bertone DeLuxe interior would be say ~$15k.

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Originally Posted by Steve105 View Post
All prices assume you are just about to take delivery of a car December 2018 and how much I would expect to pay for an excellent condition, with all factory parts/options.

GTAm $200,000-450,000 depending on pedigree and condition/options, usually museum cars never driven.
GTAm new build to FIA specs $80-140,000 prices stagnant as limited race opportunities/usability.
GTA 1750 (No flairs) all alloy panels smooth nose one off rarity the car the factory may have built but ran out of alloy bodies. FIA specs mechanical as per 1300 GTA but with with 4 valve 1750 Autodelta head and 1750/2L engine. All GTA options: $450,000-650,000.
GTC, $120,000-130,000 never homoligated or raced so prices stagnant.
GTA 1600 $400,000-750,000 depending on pedigree and condition/options, usually museum cars never driven. Cost of restoration is high mechanical and body, probably not a buy fix and sell and make money proposition.
GTA 1300 $250,000-450,000 depending on pedigree and condition/options, usually museum cars never driven. Cost of restoration high mechanical and body.
GTA 1600 FIA/factory specs replica, all alloy panels to $200,000-450,000 good usability and can be race in US/Europe. Even RHD cars raced in the US, so for RHD cars with all alloy panels to FIA/factory specs $300,000-600,000. These replica cars are more usable with modern alloys for wheels, LSD, new GTA replica cylinder heads and internals (pistons/cranks) for engines, cars can go for another 50 to 100 + years.
GTA 1300 replica all alloy panels to FIA specs $100,000-200,000 good usability (but can not be race in the pre 65 class) The 1600 GTA replica/clone pre 65 would be a first choice for racing, so 1300 GTA replicas are not built.

Stepnose 1600 Steel cars top condition restored cars
LHD GT 1963 $90,000-110,000
LHD GT 1964 $90,000-110,000
LHD GT 1965 $100,000-120,000
LHD GT 1966 $100,000-120,000
LHD GTV 1966 $110,000-130,000
LHD GTV 1967 Version 1: $110,000-130,000
LHD GTV 1967 Version 2: $140,000-150,000
LHD GTV 1967 Version 3: $90,000-110,000
LHD GTV 1968 $90,000-110,000
RHD GT 1963 $110,000-140,000
RHD GT 1964 $110,000-140,000
RHD GT 1965 $110,000-140,000
RHD GT 1966 $110,000-140,000
RHD GTV 1966 $130,000-160,000
RHD GTV 1967 Version 1: $140,000-170,000
RHD GTV 1967 Version 2: $160,000-200,000
RHD GTV 1967 Version 3: $100,000-110,000
RHD GTV 1968 $100,000-110,000

Stepnose 1300 GTj Steel cars top condition restored cars:
These cars don't tend to be restored, but are the source for $100k plus make overs to modernise them with new engines and trick bits, usually refereed to as 'outlaw' cars. I have seen good GTj pulled down and all 1300 parts on sold to pay for the make over, as per market forces. These prices are on the rise due to diminishing supply of cars presenting in standard format.
LHD GTj 1966 $50,000-60,000
LHD GTj 1967 $55,000-65,000
LHD GTj 1968 $60,000-70,000
LHD GTj 1969 $45,000-50,000
LHD GTj 1970 $45,000-50,000
RHD GTj 1966 $60,000-70,000
RHD GTj 1967 $65,000-75,000
RHD GTj 1968 $70,000-80,000
RHD GTj 1969 $55,000-60,000
RHD GTj 1970 $55,000-60,000

1750 GTV Steel cars top condition restored cars. These prices are on the rise due to diminishing supply of cars presenting in standard format, due to need of 'outlaw' car make overs.
LHD GTV 1967 $55,000-65,000
LHD GTV 1968 $70,000-80,000
LHD GTV 1969 $110,000-120,000
LHD GTV 1970 $70,000-80,000
LHD GTV 1971 $70,000-80,000
RHD GTV 1967 $65,000-75,000
RHD GTV 1968 $90,000-100,000
RHD GTV 1969 $130,000-150,000
RHD GTV 1970 $90,000-110,000
RHD GTV 1971 $90,000-110,000

My best picks for steel cars RHD in fully restored format
1. RHD GTV 1600 1967 Version 2: $160,000-200,000 (~270 cars) low arches, ATE brakes, optioned with Bertone De Luxe leather interior.
2. RHD GTV 1600 1967 Version 1: $140,000-170,000 (~400 cars) low arches, Dunlop brakes optioned with Bertone De Luxe leather interior.
3. RHD GTV 1600 1966 $130,000-160,000 (~770 cars) Low arches, Dunlop brakes optioned with Bertone De Luxe leather interior.
4. RHD GTV 1750 1969 $130,000-150,000 (~1400 cars) optioned with Bertone De Luxe leather interior.
5. RHD GT 1600 1963-66 $110,000-130,000 (~2000) Low arches, Dunlop brakes
6. RHD GTV 1600 1967 Version 3: $100,000-110,000 (~300 cars)[high arches, ATE brakes]

My best picks for steel cars LHD in fully restored format
1. LHD GTV 1600 1967 Version 2: $140,000-150,000 low arches, ATE brakes
2. LHD GTV 1600 1967 Version 1: $110,000-130,000 Low arches, Dunlop brakes
3. LHD GTV 1600 1966 $110,000-130,000 Low arches, Dunlop brakes
4. LHD GTV 1750 1969 $110,000-120,000 high arches, ATE brakes
5 LHD GT 1600 1965 $100,000-120,000 Low arches, Dunlop brakes

My best picks for replica/FIA cars which can be raced internationally today as per 1965 FIA Specs/ format, (except Australia!)
RHD GTA 1600 replica all alloy panels to FIA specs. $300,000-600,000 [dependent on rarity of donor car RHD car starting with RHD GTV 1600 66 Low arches, Dunlop brakes or RHD GT 1600 1963-66 or RHD GTV 1600 1967 Version 1]
LHD GTA 1600 replica all alloy panels to FIA specs $200,000-450,000.

Rarity/outlaw cars
GTA-1750 (No flairs) all alloy panels smooth nose one off rarity. All period FIA GTA and some GTAM options: weight 700kg $450,000-$650,000, an academic exercise, or will some one make one?
GTAm tribute $80-140,000 not fully to FIA specs.
GTJ 1300 stepnose steel shell with modern upgrade: top of the range carbon fibre panels and non period performance engines. Built to outlaw specification GTA tribute. weight 835kg $90,000 to $150,000
GTV 1300, 1600, 1750 or 2L smooth nose steel shell with modern upgrade: top of the range carbon fibre panels and non period performance engines. Built to outlaw specification.
~900kg $80,000 to $140,000
Some of the tribute and outlaw cars probably cost you more to make than what you would get in the market if you sold it. I am referring to what you would get in the market if you sold it today, as opposed to your actual spend.
The number of 105 cars made was low in some cases i.e. RHD, so I have implied previously the survival rates are also low based on the number of 105 cars in the Alfa Romeo 105 register lists. Of course there may be more cars than those list in the register, how many more who knows? probably not many more.
There are no $44k outliers of 2012 left today !
Cheers Steve

Last edited by Steve105; 08-19-2019 at 12:37 AM.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 01:46 AM
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I think when you discuss auction prices it's always important to include how much did the seller actually get in the pocket.
I don't think this particular auction house actually makes their fees publicly available? At least I have not been able to find them.
But...
A typical hammer price of 100k would cost the buyer an additional 15-25% and bring the price paid to 115-125k whereas the seller would pay a similar size auction fee and hence pocket only 75-85k. The only sure winner is the auction house having pocketed 30-45k for their kind efforts.
So, the question is then: do we base our market price on "willing buyer" or "willing seller" when it comes to auction prices?
Maybe we should all just use the classified section of alfabb ��
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 05:46 AM
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I read somewhere that these prices are including buyers premium....so we know what the buyer paid 'all in'. Seller paid a fee to the house also.
I 'm happy to see these values for #2 or 3 cars. Sellers did well!

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 06:19 AM
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There is something desirable about the 1969 car which I think is a world wide phenomena.

The interesting thing about the 1750 GTV is that in 1970 and 1971 all 1750 GTVs could use aluminum doors and bootlid under FIA regulations for racing. What does that mean? It means you could kit your 1750 GTV with these aluminum parts and in effect have a 1969 GTV car that is on par body wise with the same aluminum body panels that the GTAm could use and be the closest you can get within FIA rules to the GTA and GTAj.
Why am I mentioning these details? Because I think as more people read and understand the FIA rules of 1970 and 1971, they will get a better appreciation of the 1750 GTV cars and some may want to option their cars up to FIA specs, which although will cost will drive prices upwards in the future.

Last edited by Steve105; 08-19-2019 at 06:28 AM.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 06:57 AM
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Gents,
Check out - Stelvio under cars for sale you will find 3 x 1750 and 3 x 2000 at prices somewhat lower than paid at auction. I know it's Europe cars vs. U.S cars, but still....
Food for thought, but I also think sellers did reasonably well. @Steve105 are your prices AUD or USD?
Cheers
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 07:24 AM
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I was not clear on currency, let me check. I think I referred to the $44k which was a very old auction result in the US. My thought process was the RHD cars were of such a limited supply given their destruction rate was at a faster rate than the LHD cars so in effect the RHD cars are valued more than the LHD cars due to scarcity, so to represent that it would mean all my prices were in US dollars to reflect this scarcity with respect to the LHD cars. The number of RHD cars being held and passed onto family as investments and not offered to the market also reducing supply. Of course the demand curve has been shifting upwards for a while, so with a near vertical supply curve I expect huge shift in prices. The next price in Australia could be ~$150k US!

Last edited by Steve105; 08-19-2019 at 07:54 AM.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 08:00 AM
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I looked at both the 74 & 69 (the 69 in more detail). The 69 was restored by a Mercedes specialist at a cost of 170k. The car was gorgeous however, I found approximately half a dozen incorrect parts on it. Maybe an Alfa specialist should have done the work.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 08:25 AM
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The constant here is that these buyers are generally NOT Alfa experts so they do not know all of the little bits that some here do. They just want one for their collection and if the car looks nice they will pay top prices.
The last few cars that I sold went to non Alfisti people at very good prices.

'64 Guilia Spider
'67 GTV
'68 Giulia Super

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 04:30 PM
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Time is limited for them, well for all of us!
Collectors will still take the imperfect car with incorrect parts if they can sort it out within a small time frame, as there tends to be limited number of perfect/close to perfect cars on the market.

Last edited by Steve105; 08-20-2019 at 05:13 AM.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 05:20 AM
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As for investors at the rate the best and medium 105's have been appreciating / selling for they have probably been out performing some shares and the cash rate. The 105's are possibly out performing some old super cars in relative terms, that is the rate of 105's prices are rising is faster than that for some old super cars. The 105's are so popular today even project cars can pull serious money like $10 to $15k. The 105's don't have severe penalty costs like storage issues that can effect the electronics, computers / ECU and fuel injection systems and then there is the recommissioning issues of old super cars as most expertise has since retired who used to work on them as well as the lack of electronic spare parts like chips for the ECUs and other car specific components that all add up as mentioned in the article below. So in effect the old super cars just end up being static displays, while the 105's are more practical cars suffering few if any penalty costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978alfa View Post
More reasons to love older Alfas!
The Hidden Costs of Keeping Old Supercars Running
If you look at the Hagerty blue chip investment collector car index group of 25 cars only three of the 25 cars are fuel injected.
https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...exes/Blue_Chip

Last edited by Steve105; 08-20-2019 at 10:17 PM.
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