For Sale Spotted a GT Veloce 1750 for sale - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
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Spotted a GT Veloce 1750 for sale

They went for a non original black leather interior?

The 1750 GTV's Series 1 cars never came with a black leather interior!
The 1750 GTV's Series 1 cars only came in the Bertone DeLuxe pattern option in Pelle Testa di Moro: dark brown 'leather' seats and door cards or Pelle Rossa: red 'leather' seats and door cards.
I've seen this sort of mistake in the restoration process before, which catches out individuals either owners or restoration companies who are are not familiar with the cars.
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/m...bertone/780539
I do accept that past and present cultural trends exist which are counter to factory specifications of the cars. I think it's important to clarify what is a factory specification and what is a cultural trend (like non standard black interiors in leather for 1750 GTV Series 1 and GT Veloce 1600) (The 1750 GTV Series 1 had a black vinyl interior but the GT Veloce 1600 never had a black vinyl interior).
Some vendors supply a black vinyl interiors for the GT Veloce 1600 which may be their response to demand/cultural trends as opposed to preparing a car to original specifications or concours.
I have sent the manager of RMSothebys some information so as to inform them the car has a nonstandard interior.
Steve

Last edited by Steve105; 08-13-2019 at 04:59 PM.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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What has caught out owners, buyers, vendors and the industry involved in restoration is their lack of knowledge with regards to the factory original interior, i.e. colours of paint and colours and materials and patterns for the interior 105 cars in particular
for the GT Veloce 1600 and 1750 GTV S1 and S2 cars.
The details and knowledge is now mostly available in forums like Alfabb and some of it is on Wiki, so now we can see correctly restored cars.
The 2L GTV details of exterior paints and interior colours and materials have been known / listed on Alfabb for a while, but these differ from the GT Veloce 1600 and 1750 GTV S1 and S2.
I would say the resource for the 2L GTV details of exterior paints and interior colours and materials is great but there needs to be a warning that the files can not be used for GT Veloce 1600 and 1750 GTV S1 and S2.
The auction is in a few days it will be interesting to see what penalty the car suffers.
here is the link again
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/m...bertone/780539

Last edited by Steve105; 08-15-2019 at 03:58 AM.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 04:48 PM
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Are you sure about this with respect to US cars? I bought my '69 (S1) 1750 GTV in 1985 and it clearly wasn't restored and had (and has) black interior.
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1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa69GTV1750 View Post
Are you sure about this with respect to US cars? I bought my '69 (S1) 1750 GTV in 1985 and it clearly wasn't restored and had (and has) black interior.
To clarify the 1750 GTV S1 or S2 cars did not come with black 'leather' interior. The only leather interiors they came with were the Bertone DeLuxe option patterns in dark brown or red. They did of course come with a few colours in vinyl like black (like your car) or tan or red.

Last edited by Steve105; 08-14-2019 at 01:10 AM.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 04:57 PM
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Ahhh, like we said on USS Ustafish. RTFQ.....�� My bad.

Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
San Diego, CA

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a list of models from the spare parts catalog and first hand knowledge

GT Sprint 1600
Bertone DeLuxe Leather colours
Black
Dark brown
Beige
Red
Grey
GT Sprint Veloce 1600
Bertone DeLuxe Leather colours
Dark brown (on Alfabb)
Red (On Alfabb)
GTV 1750 Series 1 and 2
Bertone DeLuxe Leather colours
Dark brown (owned S1 and S2 on Alfabb)
Red (S1 on Alfabb and owned S2)
GTV 2L
No leather (to be confirmed)
GTC
no leather
GTA
no leather

Last edited by Steve105; 08-13-2019 at 05:22 PM.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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There are no excuses for any one to get it wrong when it comes to leather interiors for factory original restorations. Let's not forget when you are entering your car in concours events, make sure you have copies of the all the information so you can convince judges your car's leather interior if a GT Sprint Veloce 1600 or GTV 1750 Series 1 and 2 is original and never came in black. Good luck
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 06:14 PM
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The photographer did a nice job. I think I might have drooled a bit. She certainly presents well, it will be interesting where the hammer falls on Saturday.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a list just focusing on black for the interior in vinyl
GT Sprint 1600
Black vinyl was not an option
GT Sprint Veloce 1600
Black vinyl was not an option
GTV 1750 Series 1 and 2
Black vinyl was an option
GTV 2L
Black vinyl was an option
GTC
Black vinyl was not an option
GTA
Black vinyl was not an option

Last edited by Steve105; 08-14-2019 at 01:43 AM.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a list just focusing on black carpet for the cabin flooring
GT Sprint 1600
Black carpet was not an option
GT Sprint Veloce 1600
Black carpet was not an option
GTV 1750 Series 1 and 2
Black carpet ? ... I'm still checking this
GTV 2L
Black carpet? I'm still checking this
GTC
Black carpet was not an option
GTA
Black carpet? ... I'm still checking this

Last edited by Steve105; 08-14-2019 at 01:47 AM.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 01:53 AM Thread Starter
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Since cultural trends of the past some have preferred black interiors. So if you want a full black interior TO FACTORY ORIGINAL SPECIFICATIONS your options are limited.
For a leather interior in black the only available choice is the
GT Sprint which had black leather seats and door cards only no black carpet.

For a vinyl interior in black you have two choices the
GT Veloce 1750 which had black vinyl seats and door cards only (black carpet still to be confirmed).
or the GT Veloce 2L which had black vinyl seats, door cards only (black carpet still to be confirmed).

For cars that did not have a black interior as per factory specifications were the
GT Veloce 1600 which had no black interior at all, seats, door cards or carpet.
GTC had no black interior at all, seats, door cards or carpet.
GTA had no black interior for seats or door cards (black carpet still to be confirmed).

So basic rules for original factory specifications in black
Black leather seats and door cards = GT Sprint
Black vinyl seats and door cards = 175O GTV or 2L GTV
No black interiors for GT Veloce 1600 or GTC or GTA
All my sources are as listed. If you have better information list your sources.
Steve

Last edited by Steve105; 08-14-2019 at 03:35 AM.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 04:54 AM
I'm not sure I'm following your concern. They aren't claiming that the car is factory original. In fact they note that the interior was originally brown. Obviously it has aftermarket wheels as well.

They're not showing it, they're selling it. If they get anywhere near what the auction house is predicting I'd say the market decided it didn't mind leather interior too much...

If i were to be concerned about anything on this car it would be the engine ID. Maybe I'm wrong but i don't think Alfa ever stamped the engine number on the bell housing flange in 1969 (should be below the intake manifold). It's hard to see in the picture but the stamping itself doesn't look like the factory style either. I'm not even sure the number correlates to the body number. If i had to guess I'd say it was a replacement block which came unnumbered from Alfa and someone stamped the number on afterward.
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Last edited by gprocket; 08-14-2019 at 05:21 AM.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 05:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gprocket View Post
...
They're not showing it, they're selling it. If they get anywhere near what the auction house is predicting I'd say the market decided it didn't mind leather interior too much...
Good point, let's see if the market does not mind too much the non original pattern and the black colour of the leather interior.

Last edited by Steve105; 08-14-2019 at 04:29 PM.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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The point I'm making is since they are claiming to be the experts in car auctions with an expert team of car specialists https://rmsothebys.com/en/home/about-us/#/sect-430209 or for that matter any one else that claims to be providing a similar service, you have to ask to whom? the buyer or the seller or both? I'm sure it is a balancing act for these companies on the one hand the car is their responsibility to sell for the seller on the other hand the buyer is relying on what, can't take it for a test drive have a full road test body test? is that part of the documents the car comes with ?, that leaves cosmetics like paint and interior, where is the expert certification it's original to factory specifications, receipts are one thing but certification of restored to original factory specs conditions is another, where are the clubs in this picture to help the buyer ?

Come on people we know the cars well and we are not even in the loop are you getting my point ? I would be calling in the most knowledgeable person/s on the car for advise before I hand over $150k!

Last edited by Steve105; 08-15-2019 at 04:48 PM.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Car sold for $117.6k
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