Alfa Romeo 8c Competizione.....'Authentic Emotions' - Page 11 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
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post #151 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 10:18 AM
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It's interesting people are hung up on the GM sourced blocks not being proper Alfa engines. The blocks maybe sourced from a partnership with GM (the joint development makes them atleast part Italian) but the heads and electronics are from Alfa. The bits that give an engine most of its character come from Alfa. As long as it looks, feels, sounds and drives like a "proper" Alfa engine, should anyone care?

Every engine on the market today has components derived across manufacturers and geographies. We live in a global economy with multiple parts sourcing and development. Even Ferrari/Maserati engines have Chinese, Japanese, Korean, British and Malaysian (among other countries) bits. Does this make Ferrari engines today less "Ferrari like" or Italian? How about a Aston or a Lamborghini built in Germany with component R&D sourced in China? A BMW assembled in North Carolina with parts from Taiwan? A Mercedes built in Alabama? A Camry built in Kentucky and developed in a design studio in California?

The days when two guys in a garage turned their mother's kettle in to a propulsion device and built an industrial empire in their back yard are long gone (well, maybe not in Silicon Valley). We are probably better off for it if we can still have the things we love and care about sooner, cheaper and better put together.

95 164Q
06 GranSport LE

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post #152 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Alfa_Tiv
It's interesting people are hung up on the GM sourced blocks not being proper Alfa engines. The blocks maybe sourced from a partnership with GM (the joint development makes them atleast part Italian) but the heads and electronics are from Alfa. The bits that give an engine most of its character come from Alfa. As long as it looks, feels, sounds and drives like a "proper" Alfa engine, should anyone care?

Every engine on the market today has components derived across manufacturers and geographies. We live in a global economy with multiple parts sourcing and development. Even Ferrari/Maserati engines have Chinese, Japanese, Korean, British and Malaysian (among other countries) bits. Does this make Ferrari engines today less "Ferrari like" or Italian? How about a Aston or a Lamborghini built in Germany with component R&D sourced in China? A BMW assembled in North Carolina? A Mercedes built in Alabama? A Camry built in Kentucky and developed in a design studio in California?

The days when two guys in a garage turned their mother's kettle in to a propulsion device and built an industrial empire in their back yard are long gone (well, maybe not in Silicon Valley). We are probably better off for it if we can still have the things we love and care about sooner, cheaper and better put together.
the project of v6 hf GM seems begun in 1999, someone asserts that Japanese HONDA. has participated also on the situated ones web of the Fiat group does not find news of such motors, has pointed out me that not even on situated of the Fiat- powertrain- technology, been born from a rib of dead Fiat-GM powertrain, they are found indiscretions or news of some kind on v6 jts but on new the 4 cylinders jts. these motors does not exist for the society
F-P-T that are taken care of development search and production of the diesels engine and the motors to gasoline, gearbox

Last edited by castigamatti; 04-16-2006 at 10:34 AM.
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post #153 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 11:28 AM
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The Return of the First Exotic class. ALFA ROMEO

THe 8C is turely the car we need to seperate us from those Fiat built intalian BMW's and in some cases Italian VW Golf's and some Mazda's that are taking the Alfa Look. Lets get that car here and I'm certain to buy. Alfa Romeo is an Exotic Car not a economy luxury car. I ***^&*(ing love that 8C

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post #154 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 11:38 AM
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The 8c is the Alfa we need to put the brand back on the map, people are gonna say, dammmmmm thats an ALFA????.....and the glorious past of this once reverred name will rekindle.

Current: 89' Milano Gold(sold)
Next: 164 S

Be warned though, Alfas can have a strange effect on owners; ‘Alfaholic’ a recognised condition among car enthusiasts
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post #155 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa_Tiv
It's interesting people are hung up on the GM sourced blocks not being proper Alfa engines. The blocks maybe sourced from a partnership with GM (the joint development makes them atleast part Italian) but the heads and electronics are from Alfa. The bits that give an engine most of its character come from Alfa. As long as it looks, feels, sounds and drives like a "proper" Alfa engine, should anyone care?

Every engine on the market today has components derived across manufacturers and geographies. We live in a global economy with multiple parts sourcing and development. Even Ferrari/Maserati engines have Chinese, Japanese, Korean, British and Malaysian (among other countries) bits. Does this make Ferrari engines today less "Ferrari like" or Italian? How about a Aston or a Lamborghini built in Germany with component R&D sourced in China? A BMW assembled in North Carolina with parts from Taiwan? A Mercedes built in Alabama? A Camry built in Kentucky and developed in a design studio in California?

The days when two guys in a garage turned their mother's kettle in to a propulsion device and built an industrial empire in their back yard are long gone (well, maybe not in Silicon Valley). We are probably better off for it if we can still have the things we love and care about sooner, cheaper and better put together.
Yes, you are right, except that the new Alfa engines are still rubbish. They just don't want to rev, don't sound very nice and are very linear. So the whole reason for being hung up on the whole GM thing is that the new engines are inferior to the Fiat ones.
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post #156 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa_Tiv
It's interesting people are hung up on the GM sourced blocks not being proper Alfa engines. The blocks maybe sourced from a partnership with GM (the joint development makes them atleast part Italian) but the heads and electronics are from Alfa. The bits that give an engine most of its character come from Alfa. As long as it looks, feels, sounds and drives like a "proper" Alfa engine, should anyone care?
I wouldn't care so much about the new GM-sourced engines in Alfa Romeos if they were actually better than Alfa's old engines. My problem is that I don't think that they are. And in my philosophy, things are suppose to improve and become more refined with time, not get worse.

In the past Alfa engines were known for their quality and design. By many, Alfa developed what were considered the best engines on the market for the money and many of the inovations in engine design that were pioneered by Alfa inspired other auto manufacturers for generations. So, politics aside, I don't see why GM needs to provide them with inferior blocks than the ones Alfa use to produce themselves. If you ask me, Alfa should be the ones providing GM with blocks.

But alas, this isn't a perfect world that we live in. Fiat struggles and GM mass produces cheap engines and this is the result we have.
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post #157 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 05:39 PM
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http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-te...905--perf.html

"It sounds delicious, too, the usual Alfa V6 note reproduced convincingly on this all-new engine"


http://motoring.independent.co.uk/ro...icle226623.ece

To the road. And have no fears about the new engine's Alfa-ness, because this one sounds almost exactly like the old 2.0 Twin Spark, (possibly the most charismatic four-cylinder production engine of recent years) with a lovely edge to its exhaust note and a crisp, eager response. It pulls better from low speed than its predecessor, too, although the 159's ample mass "just shy of a ton-and-a-half" blunts the thrust a bit.



http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?...icleId=2996359

It does. One press of the V6 Q4's starter button, one blip of its accelerator, and you know there's a soul within. This new V6 engine has much the same rich, delicious burble as past Alfa V6s, but it now has the mid-speed pulling power (and the thirst) to match the high-revs energy.



http://www.topgear.com/drives/A0/00/...sts/01/01.html

At the top of the tree is a 260bhp V6 doing its stuff via four-wheel drive. It's unrelated to Alfa's old V6, but manages to sound remarkably similar - deep and thrumming at low revs, sharp and keen higher up. An engine that loves to be pasted.
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post #158 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 05:44 PM
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I wonder why we are so hung up about the Busso V6s. It's really long in the tooth. Had a lot of novel ideas, but seriously, way past its sell by date. Also do we want Alfa to back to its old ways?

In 1992 BMW moved to the hotwire AFM, Alfa was still stuck with the flapper AFM until the 164 Q4.

I love the V6, all my Alfas are V6s. But the reality is, it's time to move on.
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post #159 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 07:31 PM
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Another way to look at it is the possibility that if Alfa didn't have access to the GM engines then there might not be an Alfa at all anymore.

Tim Annett
Cincinnati
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post #160 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 05:06 AM
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Angry GM for Alfa

No way should GM provide the engines. I love my country but leave the car stuff to the italians. Youll end up with what happened to Jaguar, Mercedes, and Aston Martin. Even though its not in the US currently, Alfa Romeo is one of the last pure breedz in the US. I thought they were getting an engine from Ferrari. The same V8 in the Maserati.

I dont just like the badge on the front and rear. I like the whole car. Once the Americas get their hands on it they will do what they always do. Make cars simular like with all american cars. Name one American car that doesnt have a 'suto' twin of a different name but same manufacturer. Hell the Jaguar S tyep is the Tourus. Now Mercedes (which i dont like anway) looks like Chrystlers. Go figure.

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post #161 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude
Yes, you are right, except that the new Alfa engines are still rubbish. They just don't want to rev, don't sound very nice and are very linear.
You could believe this only if every single review thus far of the new engines have stated the EXACT opposite of this save the last remark since some have said they lack that top end non-linear feel of the "classic" engines.. But every single review has said the engines both feel and sound like an Alfa, and are quite the contrary to rubbish... again.. be careful what you believe from this guy..
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post #162 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HenryKrinkle
You could believe this only if every single review thus far of the new engines have stated the EXACT opposite of this save the last remark since some have said they lack that top end non-linear feel of the "classic" engines.. But every single review has said the engines both feel and sound like an Alfa, and are quite the contrary to rubbish... again.. be careful what you believe from this guy..
I heard the 147 GTA engine and the Brera 3.2. My honest opinion, the new engine is not even close. As for revving, it is embarrasing, the response to the gas pedal is geriatric.

If anybody is ever in Fribourg, Switzerland, I will be more then happy to demonstrate what a responsive engine should be like.
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post #163 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 11:51 AM
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New Engine Old Engine

I agree. The new engines are a bit rubbish. What kind of power and performance can you really get from a 4 cylinder. How can we even try to compete with 6 cylinders and below. Before Fiat, it was 6 cylinders and above (8C etc..) I still have the promotional ad where they vou never to build 4 cylinders engines and try to call them performance cars. Its that kind of manufacuring that give the Honda Civic rights to bragg.

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post #164 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 12:40 PM
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4 cylinder engines are ok, if they are good engines.

I just heard a 156 2.5 V6 gunning it today and the sound was gorgeous.

Journos who say the new Alfa engines have the Alfa sound, never heard an Alfa engine to begin with.
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post #165 of 736 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 01:11 PM
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Really?

Jeremy Clarkson has never owned a GTV6 then.

And I guess he never tested the 147 GTA and 166 3.2 (both of which are on bittorent).

Last edited by 75evo; 04-17-2006 at 01:50 PM.
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