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Giulia updates?

6K views 38 replies 15 participants last post by  coloradocarguy 
#1 ·
#2 ·
I agree that bringing a manual is not a value proposition for Alfa at this point, so I don't blame them, but I think dismissing manuals because the take rate is "literally nothing" shows that they have misunderstood their fan base- at least for cars like the QV. Manuals have much more of a reputation as a "budget" option in Europe and as such few premium car buyers want them. In the U.S., manuals are now mostly associated with sports cars- as sports cars (or hot hatches) are the only cars that still offer them here (with some limited exceptions). As such, the type of person who buys a QV is much more likely to want a manual here. That's part of the reason why BMW killed the manual in the G20 3 series but has stated they will keep a special version of the M3 available in manual.
 
#5 ·
Unfortunately, American buyers look at joysticks, infotainment, cup holders etc. It seems to me that some of you fail to understand FIATs motives here. They want to sell cars!

I want a manual tranny, and IMHO believe it was maybe shortsighted to not offer one if for only one reason. Most car aficionados prefer a manual, the Alfisti would be driving more newer cars, talking about them etc.

I recall years ago when searching for a new car, I used the internet for the 1st time. I wanted an Audi A4, and the comments from American reviews? Small cup holders kept coming up!
 
#9 ·
I think you are absolutely right about typical American car buyers. However, QV buyers are very far from the typical American car buyer.

My point above was that American performance enthusiasts were likely to have a much higher take rate than what happened in Europe. The American take rate for the M3, as well as Porsche's decision to bring back the manual GT3 are good examples.
 
#8 ·
Is a manual offered in Europe?



So make it a very expensive N American option - the hardcores like us will buy it, the extra cost might cover the logistics, they gain a better reputation in the magazines.
Manual version is available for low power diesels only.
There is no chance to get manual with a gas engine. The share of orders was very low. If we are talking about QV, the demand for manual gearbox drop to 12 cars per month. It was the main reason to stop the production

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#12 ·
Haha!! The newest car I ever owned had 50,000 mi! And that was in college!

The "sportiest" thing I've bought recently was an A4 Avant turbo /manual / quattro / sport seats... Ooo, luxury.....with 70,000mi. That's why I get a kick out of all the hand wringing over $50,000+ cars. If you want a new sports car, buy a Cayman S with a manual. These are big heavy sedans.
 
#20 ·
With the notable exception of the NA market, a ZF S6-53 six-speed manual transmission is/was available as a no-cost option but only in left-hand drive QVs. Australia, India, Japan, South Africa, the UK, and other countries requiring right-hand drive vehicles receive only the ZF 8HP75 (2nd Generation) eight-speed automatic transmission (same as NA). The statistics for a manual transmission take-rate for the Giulia QV (where available) show a total of 160 cars for the combined 2017 and 2018 model years, only slightly more than 10% of total Giulia QV sales to date. FCA is in the business of designing, building, and selling vehicles to make money so they can continue to design, build, and sell more vehicles, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera ... I no longer have a dog in this fight as I've made my choice, i.e., a 2018 Giulia Ti Sport with the Q2 Performance Package, a vehicle with which I'm very pleased! [Note, I'm someone who since 1967 has personally owned eleven vehicles (of which six were/are ARs), all of which had manual transmissions; the last being a 2006 Audi A4 Avant (wagon) 3.2-V6 MT6 which was my DD for ten years yet my Giulia has been far more satisfying to drive despite having an AT8!]
 
#22 ·
Manual take-rate??

I still cannot understand AlfaBB members sprucing manual take-rates when manuals weren’t even offered to the large sector of the global market, we’ll never know (full stop)

One fact is that I didn’t buy the new Giulia which means one less Giulia on the road and one less advocate talking about the new Giulia with people on a daily basis...... I don’t think I’m the sole person in this situation so good luck FCA.

PS. Note that manuals were already built for the QVs and diesels so the additional investment is miniscul in the scheme of things and they would have tapped into new markets such as all the manual BMW drivers.
 
#23 · (Edited)
"why you even think of manual"

Not as much mechanical interaction with the machinery, and therefore, not as much fun for some of us. Simple as that. How fast shifting does an automatic transmission need to be for nonracers, anyway? Is this like spending thousands on the 99.9+% audio equipment, which you most likely can't hear anyway?

Recently drove my bro in law's Chevy (Holden) SS with the flappy paddles, and while the transmission in that car is great, as good as the Alfa based on my own driving experience now with both, it wasn't much fun compared to my 91S or 94LS manual transmission. Boring actually. Also got a good ride in his new 750 hp Corvette. Definitely not boring, a real spaceship, lol.

Still, ended up impressed with the SS. Quite fast, and with dealers most everywhere. Toss up between that, if and when he decides to sell it, and a Giulia I think.
 
#26 ·
Yes, although to be fair he was allowing for the fact that no manual RHD version was ever going to be available for the UK.

He makes the valid point though that the current state of electronics means the turbo engines can be optimized for pairing with an automatic in a way not possible with a manual gearbox. For the same reason paddleshifting a modern automatic does not usually improve performance of the drivetrain.

Manuals have aesthetic appeal only.
 
#28 ·
When I took a racing instruction in NZ on Australian V8 touring cars (racing slicks, huge brakes and a 400+ bhp Corvette V8 with 6 spd whatever, Tremec?) I was specifically instructed not to heel and toe downshift. I was instructed to let the synchromesh do the job. Rev matching yes, so as not to upset the chassis, but no heel and toe. That was at racing speeds on the A1 track at Taupo.

On the street you should not heel and toe but simply rev match the downshift. Heel and toe is totally unnecessary for a synchro box unless it is worn. Synchros are designed to exactly match the relative speeds of the dog gears and heel and toe rev matching can only produce heavier loads on the synchros unless perfectly executed.

The other aspect of rev matching using heel and toe is you are almost never braking hard enough on the street to warrant even trying to heel and toe. The brake pedal is not depressed far enough down to allow correct alignment of gas pedal and brake pedal.

I can do it, easily, but tend not to after receiving that advice.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Heel and toe is made much more difficult by the current practice of separating the brake and clutch pedals laterally in order for the car makers to be able to have their expert witnesses claim that it is impossible for the driver to operate the wrong pedal.

This is in response to the Audi unintended acceleration nonsense claims that nearly killed off that brand.

The only time you would "need" to brake and rev match simultaneously is when trail braking quite hard into the initial portion of the cornerand you require a downshift at the same time. The gear needs to be engaged while under brakes and you don't want the clutch pedal still depressed as you come off the brake pedal. This is a pretty rare condition on the street, to be frank. Far more often you never trail brake into a corner on the street because you just are nowhere near the limits of the car.




The other topic in this thread is the styling of the Giulia. It's a definite head turner. One of those cars you look back at as you leave it parked....
 
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#32 · (Edited)
Wait a second - you have to heel-toe whether you're double-clutching or rev-matching. How are you going to rev-match if you don't? The double-clutch utilizes the left foot rather than the right. Well - both, but the "double" part is the left.

I always rev-match on braking down-shifts as a matter of habit. The pedals in my 2005 Audi (made 2 decades after the unintended acceleration debacle) are perfectly placed for it, as was the Renault Clio I rented in Switzerland last month. OTOH, in my 115-series Alfa Romeo (no relation to this thread) where I have to double-clutch the brake and throttle pedals don't have a great relationship. But I suppose that's part of the joy of owning an Alfa Romeo (the defunct car manufacturing company, not to be confused with the badges currently used by Fiat).

I doubt that this Chris Harris guy is a "real gear-head" per the definition defined by the Top Gear/Grand Tour trio (i.e. he's never owned a real Alfa Romeo).
 
#38 · (Edited)
I realize this. My point really is heel and toe isn't needed for street driving because you can easily separate the braking from the shifting.

As for "perfectly placed" pedals that may be a little subjective. All the SAABs I owned or drove really did have perfectly spaced and placed pedal sets. Audi's not so much. My 2001 S4 was pretty poor but manageable. My 1982 GTV 6 was very, very good. BMW do this very well. Etc etc. My 1961 Vauxhall Victor had well placed pedals, now there was a demanding car to drive fast.....

PS

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/chris-harris-drives/heres-why-alfa-romeo-makes-us-smile#7
 
#34 · (Edited)
I'm surprised they're not offered in Europe. I travel to Europe quite a lot and my rentals are always manual and the cars I ride around in are almost always manual. But then I rent cheap cars and hang out with working men rather than posh people. Last year when I rented a car in Holland the lady behind the counter said "oh, you're American? I love Americans!" then her face fell when she had to break the news they had no autos on the lot - and perked back up when I said that wasn't a problem. In Switzerland two months ago they were quite proud to announce that they'd secured an auto just for my American *** but when I told them I preferred a manual they said "oh, we have lots of those" - and I got this little Clio that was fun as heck on Alpine roads. Gah - I'd buy one today if they were sold here!
 
#36 ·
It will be a change alright!!

You'll have no difficulty finding a buyer for your 'stang, but I hear you. The latter Mustangs developed with integral link IRS handle exceptionally well compared to older live axle suspended cars. The Torsen LSD is pretty sweet, gives you the good old fashioned axle squirm feeling just like the old live axle cars did with open differentials.

But, really, the Giulia will be pretty much completely different to drive.
 
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