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post #736 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 10:27 AM
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Don, what a wonderful post regarding your Son's sobriety and you guys working on the Alfa together, it is very heartwarming.

I need to stop by see the car and meet your son. I'll be in touch soon.

When you finish this project I see another one in you and your sons future!!

71 GTV
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post #737 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Shiny stuff

I think Iíve got the hood finished. Iíll publish a separate discussion of turning the repro scoop opening trim pieces into something useful.

I used a modern closed-cell foam insulation plus silver ironing board cover for the hood lining. I really donít like the saggy-fat-bottom look of the pink fiberglass, and this should hold its shape.

Long week getting this stage done.
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #738 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 06:45 PM
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I can't begin to tell you what an exciting journey it has been to follow you in your restoration of the 2000 spyder. I have loved every comment, every explanation and every picture you have posted and I will remember it all for a very long time. Thank you for permitting me to tag along. It has been wonderful!
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post #739 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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New twist...

New battery won’t hold a charge. Can’t see anything pulling power. Might be a defective battery, or something I’ve juggled wrong creating a high-resistance circuit.

Should be fun to locate.

Not.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #740 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
I used a modern closed-cell foam insulation plus silver ironing board cover for the hood lining.
And the result is very good : Congratulation.
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post #741 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 04:11 AM
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I wish you would have said something...I was in the insulation business. The foam might not hold up under the heat. JoAnn's, probably where you bought the ironing board blanket sells the pad .. white fibers and takes the heat and won't sag.. oh, well ..not a big deal...perhaps.
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post #742 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
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I bought the foam from Summit Racing. Specifically designed for hood insulation, and has a shiny, aluminum layer facing down, toward the engine. I used Joann’s ironing board fabric. As it’s all designed for high-temp use, and stain resistance, I have high hopes.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #743 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Hood scoop trim

All of the aftermarket vendors have offered new hood scoop trim pieces for over a decade. I wonder if a) they used to be good pieces and now are not, b) nobody ever sold any because there were enough original floating around, c) no one could figure out how to make them fit, and were too embarrassed to publish, or d) everyone found it easy to modify them to fit, so didn't think any comment was necessary.

I've bought two sets via CA, but I'm certain its the same fabricator for all distributors. They are woefully unusable as-received.

The trim pieces are listed as fitting all cars, both US and Euro. 102.04.59.037.00. So, we should be able to assume that repro parts sold should have a hope of being usable.

The short of it is, the repros are too tall, and have the wrong curvature at both ends. I attempted to fit the first pair I bought by carefully filing away the ends to lower the height. This eventually led to the studs falling away before the correct amount of lowering was achieved. As part of this effort, I tried to change the arc of the ends, finding that the folded down flange at the front added too much stiffness to achieve much change in the curvature.

Note the originals are chrome-plated steel, and the repros are stainless. This is actually a good thing.

The originals have a roundish profile on the top, and the repros are flat on the top.

So.... What to do?

After thinking about it, I ordered another pair. The first step was to use my Dremel to remove the 4mm studs at each end (or are they 3mm? I'll double check). This allowed me to use a hand-held belt sander without having to navigate around the studs, which were going to fall off anyway, once the right amount of metal was removed.

I used the belt sander to narrow the width of the front flange. The combination of the soft stainless, and the slightly narrowed flange will allow some degree of re-arcing of the trim piece, to better conform to the two scoops.

On my car, and all I've seen, the scoops are taller near the center than the outer, and the curve is more roundish near the center, and slightly flattened at the outer end. Plus, since the scoops are slanted from front to back, creating a sort of "arrow" look, the angle of the ends of the trim must be twisted to match.

Using flat "seam" pliars, I was able to tweak the shapes to fit. This was a very slow, iterative process, as each change would involve some sanding/metal removal, with twisting and tweaking. The biggest challenge was to get the trim to lay flat on top of the scoop. The top of each scoop has a slight arc from inside to out, whereas the new trim pieces are flat across the top. Patience, patience, patience.

Of course, all this work lead to scratching of the stainless. Here's where it is a benefit to be stainless. I used a Dremel sanding wheel to remove the scratches, then a buffing wheel with polish to bring them back to a high shine. I may take one more pass at perfecting the shine before calling it done, but stainless is pretty forgiving in this area.

However, before polishing, I had to reinstall some studs.

As the original studs didn't match the distance between the holes on my hood, I made a jig to ensure I placed them the right distance apart. The jig, in the end, was a waste of time. With some study I was able to eyeball the placement of the new studs, which were held in place by my son while I brazed them. Regular brazing works fine on stainless, and was what I found on the new trim pieces when I removed the original studs. I found it helpful to slightly bend the upper portion of each stud to get a better contact patch with the trim, while allowing the stud to protrude down at the correct angle. I also pre-tinned both the stud and trim piece, to allow less heat-on time during the actual attachment of the stud.

Like most things we do on these cars, I reckon another set would take me only about an hour. This pair took the better part of a day and a half.

Last point..... I forgot that the studs had to protrude not only through the hood thickness, but also the various doublers and material on the underside of the hood. As it turns out, I cut the studs to the EXACT length necessary for final assembly, but it was close. I'd leave the studs longer next time, doing the cut after final assembly.

First pic below shows original as-removed on the right, with un-modified new repro on the left.
Second pic shows sort of arced "airfoil" shape of original trim. Repro is flat on top.
Third pic shows repro parts after significant grinding, shaping, sanding, and buffing.
Fourth pic is a repro just after stud removal.
Last pic was immediately after installation. Might do some more polishing.
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...

Last edited by DPeterson3; 04-15-2019 at 10:10 AM.
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post #744 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 11:24 AM
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Wow, impressive detailing.
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #745 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 01:53 PM
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Hi All,

FYI

all the 1900 seri and first 2000 touring seri used brass chromed and the later 2000 seri and 2600 seri used stainless steel for the trimparts.

rgds Franco
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post #746 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 02:08 PM
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I am spending my time to run after people that are restoring my cars. I have 28 cars and at this stage in life (77) I am pushing to finish latest cars
Under restoration a ferrari 330 gt 2+2 that o purchased in boxes. Now can say 80% done. Engine done body to be primed this week interior ready and great etc
Second is a Maserati mexico working in tandem with the ferrari
My second porches 356 c just painted
A jensen cv8 finally finish
A Renault dauphine that is in my collection as was my first car at age 18 received from my mom for my birthday. Crashed on my birthday. Than found one and is close to be finish.
A Sabra convertible that is an Israeli made car. Have already 2 in concours conditions
And now my latest crazy idea a 2000 touring extremely rusted but that is the fun. Purchased the metal for first aid and once is solid will purchase the rest. Found 2 doors in great conditions and presently looking for seats frames and door glasses. Originally white.
Another car that another restorer will finish for my 78 birthday will be my jaguar xk120 convertible.
All my cars in Toronto but one a lancia aurelia b12 that I keep in Italy to partecipate to rallies.
A 2 times mille miglia survivor.
By now I am sure you are convinced that I an crazy but a crazy guy that is keeping busy.
My other cars are in terrific conditions and driving them by time to time. I made my studies in Italy than the 2000 was one of the car that I had at the age of 19 and no one wanted them!
Rgds
Walter

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post #747 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 03:16 PM
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80% "finished" on a project simply equates to 80% more time required to do the last 20%...ask me how I know.
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post #748 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Only brass and stainless?

Frank,

Your research may need more development.

Here is the one original hood scoop trim that came with 1488. It is certainly original.

It is hanging from a magnet in this picture, thus is not Brass, and the rust on the inside tells us it is not stainless. Although some stainless can be slightly magnetic, it is generally too weak to be suspended by a magnet.

So, this piece is steel plus chrome.



Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce View Post
Hi All,

FYI

all the 1900 seri and first 2000 touring seri used brass chromed and the later 2000 seri and 2600 seri used stainless steel for the trimparts.

rgds Franco
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #749 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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I guess it was time...

Every now and then one has to stop, back up, reposition, and come at it again...

First... The battery from Wally World wouldn't come all the way up to charge, nor would it hold. The grumpy guy at the counter said "well, I have to check it". He did. He came back. Checked the rack. Returned and reported they didn't have one in stock, and the battery shipment had just been put away. Then, stood there and stared at me. After a pause, I asked "what do you propose". He answered "I don't have one in stock". Another pause. "OK, I'll take my money back". "We can only do an exchange, no refunds after 90 days". "Have you checked the date when I bought it?" Pause with frown. Fussed with battery. Looked at his calendar.

"Do you want the credit on the card you used, or cash?" Cash please. Gave me cash. "Where's the core charge refund?" Mutter, mutter, mutter. Another $12.92 and I was outta there.

Interstate offered me a new battery that had been returned from a distributor's stock, but with full warranty. $30 less than I'd just been refunded at Wally World.

But the real story of the day....

I've run up the car and shifted through the gears a few times, noting a vibration that seems to track the driveshaft speed. More or less. I removed the right rear wheel, noting it displayed some degree of out-of-true wobbling. I'd felt a funny high-spot in the drum when doing the brakes, so don't know at this moment if it's the drum, or the wheel. Anyway, removing the wheel didn't change the vibration, so that wasn't the problem.

I crawled under and studied the entire drive line. You faithful readers may recall I discussed a shim pictured as fitting ahead of the drive shaft center bearing. Several people commented that it probably didn't matter, and I also discussed with Larry that my front shaft appeared to already have such a shim in place. He also supported the "doesn't really matter" theory.

Well... In perusing the driveshaft, I could see that the forward 8-hole giubo was being pulled out of its natural shape by the forward shaft that was pulled too much rearward. Thus, the bolts to the transmission yoke were rotating in one plane, and the bolts in the front shaft yoke were rotating in a slightly rearward plane. Presumably due to the absence of the shim, or perhaps the correct shim. I could see that the rubber support for the center bearing was also being pulled somewhat forward of the perfect middle of the U-Support. Also, the sliding yoke appeared to be pushed fully back, at least touching the area that had previously been painted, and which I'd repainted in powder.

Whether the piece on my shaft is the correct shim, or not, I've ordered some shims to move the front shaft forward, and the center bearing rearward, restoring harmony to the universe. This should also pull the sliding yoke forward a little, putting it in a more reasonable spot on the male portion of the sliding yoke.

So - the forward shaft is too far rearward.

Meanwhile...

I used the transmission cross support assembly that came with the car. I've got several others that came with 00072, presumably for a variety of models, as the height of the two stanchions vary from one to the next. I noticed when I removed the front shaft that it seems to be not perfectly concentrically aligned with the output shaft on the trans. Not off by much, and I intend to study it some more. At some point I'll compare it to 00072, but being a 59, it uses the cross-mount assembly with two flat faces to bolt to the car underbody, whereas 1488 uses the version with an arched left mounting face and a flat right face. Who knows what other dimensional differences there are between a 59 and 60?

As a thought, the rear of the trans output shaft seems just slightly lower than the center bearing bore. Has anyone adjusted this out by raising the trans in the slotted holes in the cross mount? I wouldn't think that was the intent of them being slotted, nor a smart engineering solution.

Got me some measuring to do...

As a progress report.... The trans still has the RL NS in it. When shifting from one gear to the next, it was slick and smooth. Quite possibly different with the wheels on the ground, transmitting load into forward motion.

Minor note... Worked out the small wrinkles in the top boot cover. That's been bothering me.

Had a thought about how to smooth out the wrinklies in my hood insulation pad. It'll require removing some stuff, but what the heck?

Johnny, the Mexican upholsterer that I absolutely adore, has gone on vacation. Back on April 24. Promises my stuff is up next upon his return. Not sure why I like him so much, as he generally does not deliver on time. When he's done, however, it's good and nicely priced.


The picture is the rear of the front drive shaft, showing what appears to be the required shim. Which, if it is, needs more added to it.
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...

Last edited by DPeterson3; 04-16-2019 at 08:21 PM.
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post #750 of 862 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
I've run up the car and shifted through the gears a few times, noting a vibration that seems to track the driveshaft speed.
I recall somebody writing that the bolts at the U-joint near the differential should be slightly loosened (or not fully tightened after installation), then the car should be run (with the rear wheels off the ground), before fully tightening the bolts. Another thing I heard (probably from Jay) is that there are thin felt spacers (grease retainers?) in the U-joint that can dry out or get brittle and get lost, which then increases play and may lead to vibrations. Have you checked and/or replaced those?

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]

Last edited by tubut; 04-17-2019 at 04:00 AM.
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