May the circle remain unbroken - 10204 01488 - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #46 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-25-2017, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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Up on the stands

I finally had a free evening to dig into 1488 some more. Generally, disassembly is going smoothly, although there were two left-side lug nuts that I noticed were not fully seated up. Attempts to remove them produced spinning studs. Dang. Some penetrant and butane torch got them off, but there'll be some wheel studs to sort out on the left front wheel.

Anyone ever seen shiny, silver metal on both the inside and outside of an original 102 spare tire tub, after removing some paint and primer? Nah, me neither.

I got the back half of the wiring harness pulled loose. Only the section from the driver's floor up through the firewall remains. That's where I wearied of the day's work. The battery cable is in a similar state of removal. Both the harness and battery cable were in very good condition, but they'll be replaced in any case. I'm fond of the 00 welding cable for the battery. Lionel will make a new harness.

Seats, carpet, and rubber mats all removed. Yes, the mats were held in place by those cute snaps. I have stock of the male part of those snaps, but where does one find the female that fits onto the rubber mat?

On my running 102, I chose to lay the rubber mats on top of the unmolested carpet. 1488 has it the other way around. Both make sense, in a way.

I keep finding more evidence of a whitish paint under everything I remove. The driver's side door latch and rubber guide were both still covered with very old and dry masking tape, clearing indicating an effort to paint the car at some point. Under both the latch and rubber bumper is a color very closely matching my grigio biacca. I like the color, so if the museo comes back with confirmation, we're off to the races. The remaining question to be go back with the often seen red vinyl, or red carpet and black seats/door panels as this car appears to have, or another Scottish brown saddle leather interior?

I took a bunch of pics, but Apple decided it was more important to update the iOS (and presumably slow down my phone in an effort to make me buy a new one), so I can't upload anything at the moment. Maybe tomorrow.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #47 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 06:58 AM
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Hello Don

Congratulations on your new purchase, I always enjoy reading about your exploits & I fear we share the same inability to say "no" to the next project.....

You have one saddle brown interior already, so my vote would be to go with the current colour combination, admittedly I go weak at the knees for a red interior, but in this case paired with the black seats and door panels the red carpeting & vinyl gear lever boot would really brighten up the interior & a slightly darker red would lend a touch of class. For the exterior colour I agree on Touring White, or perhaps white with a hint of blue like Azzuro Nube or a touch of yellow like Biancospino or Giallo Paglerino (Parchment). Another option would be white with a hint of grey - any of these would be a stunning colour for such an elegant car. Paired with the red & black interior would be very classy.

Ciao
Greig

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post #48 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Grieg,

There's long been a debate about Grigio Biacca. The problem stems from the tragically flawed idea that one can visit your local paint store, look up the code, and have paint brewed up that will, voila, match the original color.

It doesn't work that way.

I was fortunate to find a couple of patches of unspoiled paint under the top hold-down brackets. We color-matched them, and got a gorgeous creamy white. It would look fine with the original red vinyl, but I chose the saddle-brown leather for my personal car. The angels sing.

1488 is a car I plan to sell. I don't need two, and 00072 is stinking fast with the 2300cc engine. So, I'm tending toward strict conformity for 1488.

My problem with it's current configuration is that a white exterior, red carpet, and black vinyl starts to look like three colors. Black carpet with red vinyl actually looks like two, and is a much more elegant impression.

Meanwhile, saddle leather still sings, and based upon several years of observation, is likely to appeal to a potential buyer's wife.

Decision still pending

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #49 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 12:24 PM
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I hear you, creamy white with red interior and black carpets would be my choice, but if saddle brown is a draw card for the next owner's wife, then that is what it'll be !!

Cheers
Greig
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post #50 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Tear down continues

I took a few hours this morning to take apart some more stuff. Wanted to get the wiring harness out, but decided I needed to take out a bunch of stuff both under the dash, and forward of the firewall to make the bundle extraction through the firewall possible. That turned into master cylinder removals, brake union extraction (needed some heat to get the nuts out), hood off, etc. So far, no broken off studs or terminally resistant bolts and nuts.

Better yet, I cannot find a trace of rust on the underbody. Black stuff and oil, yes, and a little dusting of red on a few items where the undercoating is missing, but no biscuit dough! I think there'll be some small repairs around the bottom of the door openings, one door bottom, and just at the lower back end of the front wheel arches. Fingers remain crossed.

Below are just a few shots, plus one of some mystery parts. I've never encountered the black spears or the wheel hub cover (?) before. I found three pennies, one a 1960D, and the other two 1964D. Not rare, as such, but you don't much find them floating around in change anymore.
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #51 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 04:10 PM
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Black spears look like the GTV trunk rear inner panel top cover, on each side of the latch, holding down the rubber drape.
Hub thingy looks quite aftermarket? American maybe?
Andrew
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post #52 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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I was hoping someone would tell me the three pennies were worth a ton. Oh well.

Anyone want the spears? I can mail them back to Bob Fernald if they belong to a car at his place.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #53 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Endurance session in the shop

I dug in around noon, and came inside at 7:00, having had only one pee break.

Wiring harness out.
All air circulation out.
Instruments out
Switches out.
Horns out
Regulator and relays out.
Hood off.
Brake and clutch master cylinders and plumbing out
Brake union and front piping out
bottom heat shield out
And I'm sure other stuff.....

The car seems to have had a pair of period Marchal driving lights installed. There are two switches under the left dash area that could have been purchased as surplus from Dr. Frankenstein's lab. I originally assumed I'd take this car back to as near original as I could stand, but these things are cool, and definitely installed early in the car's life. Some rechroming will be required, but the lenses are perfect, and switches are cool.

This is the first 102 I've dug into that had the entire floor, footwell, rear seat area, and top storage bay lined with padded insulation. It's hard to believe this was added after the car was assembled, as that would have required a lot of things being pulled out just to cover the flooring. I plan to go back the same.

Both of the 10204's I've owned and driven were 59 models. This 60 has a number of tiny refinements, including the sound deadening mentioned above. The trans cross member is different, but I don't know why. Several pipes and wires have extra and well-placed clamps to hold them firmly in place. On the whole, more "production line" appearance and less "where should we put this?" look.

There's an odd, and I don't believe original, bracket mounted just ahead of the radiator. Air horn mounting? Radiator fan? Oil cooler?

I'm going with air horns, but no evidence of them in the pile of parts. Probably got robbed off the car when it was taken away from the kids, and installed on some young lad's Rambler.

It is at this point that I am most excited, and most despairing. I've been yanking things out, taking care, reminding me just how many little bits have to be individually restored, or replaced, replated, fiddled with, and generally dealt with. However, I got a lot done today. Perhaps 3 or 4 more days like today, and the car will be down to its shell. I do have a sense things are going more quickly. Having done one of these only a decade ago, there's some muscle memory as to what the sequence is for dismantling, and hopefully reassembling, everything.

Still, at the moment it's about 50/50 exuberance and despair.
Attached Images
     

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #54 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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More pics to document what I'm finding

A few random shots
Attached Images
   

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #55 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 10:21 PM
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Don could that bracket have had a thermostatic fan attached to it? Those Marchal lights are it and a bit!
Tim
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post #56 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 10:26 PM
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Good story.

Subscribe.


Bob,
Avatar is the 68 Super, bought new.
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post #57 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 12:56 AM
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Doug,

Andrew is probably right regarding the black spears :

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Take care with the bottom heat shield : It is asbestos fiber.

About 50/50 exuberance and despair : I know that so much
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post #58 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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These tear downs are like a forensic autopsy. Was it a crime scene, or genetic mutation?

I tend to think the bracket at the front was air horns. The horn button on the steering wheel had the headlight flasher wire disconnected. Why? Possibly that ring had been rewired to control the air horns, but when they were removed they disconnected the wire to avoid shorting things up front rather than reconnect stuff back to being a headlight flasher. There were some non standard wires up front, but I didn't take time to trace them for function.

BTW, I'm not concerned about the asbestos. It's a factor only when it's in a dust form, and inhaled. As a woven fabric, and coated in oil, it's not a threat.

My vague recollection is that the rubber mats were held in place by little snaps. Not the sort of snaps that we see today, but little "dot" looking snaps. This car has the more modern snaps, so I'm wondering if, by 1960, these had displaced the earlier version.

As I noted, the floor boards have well-laid insulation on them. Each snap was supported by a small steel ferrule that penetrates the insulation, rather than have an unsupported snap compress the insulation. Thus, the rubber mats would have laid flat rather than have a dimple at each attach point. That seems like work a factory would do, rather than a later enthusiastic owner.

The plastic lens cover over the choke-on indicator light is still white, rather than the always-seen sun-yellowed. Further indication of long-term protected storage.

My steering wheel puller managed to strip one of the bolt holes. I've heli-coiled it, but turned my attentions elsewhere for now.

About the only discouragement is the condition of the push-pull handles below the dash. They are all a bit crusty. Maybe someone has a pair of these assemblies from a sacrificial car?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #59 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 04:49 PM
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The "frankenswitches" look like Lucas beavertails, perhaps from a Giulietta. The flip-flop reversal internal shuttle is like on 101 cars on the underdash switches.
Andrew
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post #60 of 1042 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 05:35 PM
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Don,

You are making great progress on this new car. I think Norm Peterson's car, that had the same rubber mat snaps, was a 1962 model.

Just for the record, I am not a fan of the extra 'Frog' lights or the switches -pun intended.

Here is some info that you may find useful:
https://vintage-headlamp-restoration...marchal-lamps/

Thanks for the update.

Mark
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