May the circle remain unbroken - 10204 01488 - Page 16 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #226 of 1017 (permalink) Old 03-23-2018, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Whatsit?

This was in the box with all the loose engine parts that came up with Bob F. I have a strange feeling I've seen one of these before, but can't recall where or what it is. I didn't take apart the engine for 1488, but after at least 8 or 10 of these engines, you'd think I'd know right where it goes. Of course, maybe it didn't belong in the box of engine parts? Bob has a shocking pile of Alfa parts at his place, so maybe it fits a different car. I have to admit, so far I've found everything I was looking for, and it is amazing that Bob had this car in more or less semi-dismantled form, and kept everything together.

Anyone have ideas what it is? It is a shaft/stud, threaded on one and, and what appears to be a groove for a retaining ring on the small end.
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...

Last edited by DPeterson3; 03-24-2018 at 09:16 AM.
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post #227 of 1017 (permalink) Old 03-23-2018, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Day 98

I got more of the brake components cleaned up and ready. The four drums required only the slightest of turning at the brake shop, one at .009", and three at .007".

The E-Brake handle is almost ready to go, except I need to order a new rubber gaiter, and apparently I need to locate the bushing that was in the arm pivot hole. I don't recall that requiring a bushing, but it clearly does, as it is 10mm ID, and the hole in the supporting bracket is 8mm. I can get a bushing from MMC, but the original is either here in the shop, or off with the hardware being plated.

I'm off to get a big box to send the interior components off to WULPH so they can start their work.

I just heard from Laurie at Webcam. They have my two cams almost done. It's worth noting that they had to reduce the base circle only .014" to make everything work out. That would require a .0075" thicker shim to adjust than standard, except they also recommend something like .009" and .011" clearance on intake and exhaust respectively, so it's very nearly a wash. Notice to those of you that haven't heard, OKP is offering new 102 valve buckets!!!! It's been a long time without within (from the Lysistrata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata).


Only big hold up now are the new panels from Franco. I think I've gotten spoiled by the quick and cheap delivery from Classic Alfa. Maybe this is related to Brexit?

At some point I've got to drag my nice display engine box back up to the shop to remove the engine for use. It was an incredible struggle getting it from the shop down to the family room, and that was downhill! There may be ropes and a truck involved going the other way. I should have used larger casters (5" or 6" instead of 4"), and after I take out the engine and before putting the other spare engine into the box, I will make that change.
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...

Last edited by DPeterson3; 03-23-2018 at 02:31 PM.
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post #228 of 1017 (permalink) Old 03-23-2018, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
This was in the box with all the loose engine parts that came up with Bob F. Anyone have ideas what it is? It is a shaft/stud, threaded on one and, and what appears to be a groove for a retaining ring on the small end.
Just a guess but is the threaded end the same size as a sparkplug? If so, maybe it is part of a head puller...other than that no idea.

Mark
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post #229 of 1017 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 11:24 AM
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sorry this from page 8 about body color, far as ive gotten this morning, having just started reading it. mine is same color as well, paint in door jams under sill appears original if its any help
Peter

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #230 of 1017 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Peter,

Got a photo of the original paint? Was your car repainted to match the original?

If the door jamb paint is original, it’s probably lacquer, and could be buffed up to a pretty good match for how it looked originally.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #231 of 1017 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 04:09 PM
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Don, brain fart, car was blasted already, lmk look in the parts boxes, pretty sure there was paint on something I took off
Btw, very interested in what your rear panels look like inside when you get the rocker stripped off.
How all that was assembled has been of a baffle, but will be remade for structural rigidity
Mine is similar in that the inside has surface rust from poorly designed drain holes, but is solid
just the outside needs to be redone. I have all the skins waiting, but am not going to use the end pieces as my body guy didnt like them
ours came in cut n folded over instead of bucked over a wood form, so hes making new wood forms to redo them
I suppose since I'm paying for that, new ones could be make for others in the future
It looks like there is an extra layer of sheet metal, like the rocker skin was replaced direclty over, but this was leaded in, and this is after cutting away one layer already.
you've seen more of these than me, can you shed light on it?

btw you are inspiring me to organize "the pile" and get things worked on in preparation of the eventual return of the body
seems daunting and I dont even have 1/4 of the parts you have doing it accurately.
mine should be a cake walk...
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Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #232 of 1017 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Not sure what to tell you about the doubled rocker panels. I see what you mean, and I've not seen exactly this before.

My grigio biacca car, 00072, had galvanized steel pop riveted over the old, nasty rockers, and slathered with bondo to more or less look OK. Since the rockers on these cars all seem to be the first thing to go, I expect there's been many solutions bodged up along the way.

I saw a set of replacement rockers with a car up in Seattle that had the sliced and curled over ends that you describe. I bought mine from Franco this time, and asked him specifically if this was his technique, and he assured me that the ends were nicely finished and ready to use. I hope that turns out to be accurate.
pinshaw likes this.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #233 of 1017 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 04:21 PM
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Well, thats what we thought, metal guy isnt phased by it. I will def post pics of them when done and will dig thru what I have to see if the paint I remember is still there.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #234 of 1017 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Bob has a shocking pile of Alfa parts at his place, so maybe it fits a different car. I have to admit, so far I've found everything I was looking for, and it is amazing that Bob had this car in more or less semi-dismantled form, and kept everything together.
[/QUOTE

True story: After my 1600 GTV got hit front and back we pulled the engine, carbs, and transmission (this was about '75 or so). Bob kept complaining that I should come get my close-ratio gerabox and when I didn't he moved it out to his shop behind his house . . . where it, along with some GTA headers, stayed for over 3 decades. As time went on my anxiety over the fate of my c/r box grew and grew because one Alfa gearbox looks the same as another Alfa gearbox . . . Finally, I screwed up my courage and asked Bob if he still had my c/r gearbox. He gave me an of-course-I-do look and said, "Yeah, it's right over there". I took it home and, to my complete surprise, found the initials I'd inscribed on the bell-housing more than 30 years before. Bob's quite a guy.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #235 of 1017 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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We received the repair panels from Franco last week, and I handed them over to Kelly, body guy, on Monday. Yesterday, after cutting away the rocker panels, he sent me a picture of what dropped out of the enclosed area. There was one, small open area at the left rear, but no external access to the right rocker area where this placard was hiding.

Anyone have a theory on how this got into a closed area? Is there a channel from near the right side firewall face down to the rocker box?

Doncha love a mystery?
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #236 of 1017 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 10:51 AM
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On 2600 Spiders, there are 3 slots in the door sill (in the channel where the gasket goes) for getting access to the nuts that hold the bolts that attach the side spear below the door. I would presume 102 Spiders may have had something similar, but I don't know if the slots would be long enough to act as "mail slot" for such a plate.

I guess how the plate got there will remain a mystery -- but one that makes for a good story, with a chuckle or two, about the mysteries of car restoration.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #237 of 1017 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 12:31 PM
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There is the same slots on the 2000 T.
But for sure, they can't act as "mail slot" for such a plate.

Don, are the numbers corresponding to your car ?
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post #238 of 1017 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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The drain slots at the bottom of the door sill aren’t nearly wide enough for the data plate. In the 102 the holes for the trim strip bolts are in the channel for the lower rubber door seal, and not accessed through the drain holes.

I’ll go study the area at the rear right of the engine bay, and see if it’s open all the way down. If so, it may be as simple as the data plate being dropped while being removed or replaced. I wouldn’t cut open a rocker panel just to retrieve a placard.

I once found a mouse nest of old newspapers in the closed leading edge of a wing I was repairing. The airplane was built in 1946, and the completely legible newspaper was from Paris, 1949.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #239 of 1017 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 02:10 PM
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Almost Unbelievable !

Two liter spiders do have the same three slots on the underside trough for the rubber seals under the doors, but they are NOT large enough for any tag to go through. So the tag must have fallen around the edge of the firewall down into the very front part of the rocker panel in front of the door. There is a void there. On a two liter one can access the rear bolt of the short top trim piece in front of the door from inside. There is no such trim piece on a 2600. I suspect, however, the same void would be there.

But how astonishing! The plate Don found is absolutely correct for the car. It has the "Numero Autoteliao" (literally - "number of the auto run" -- AR10204 01488 ) correct for his car, although the VIN to be used on a car title is the one stamped on the firewall with two asterisks as AR10204*01488* [still not the 17 digits the US started using in 1960). As for the "Numero Motore" designating the number of engine style only -- AR00204 _______ to indicate it for a spider (as compared to AR00202 for a sedan or AR00205 for a sprint) is provided. After 1959 Alfa discontinued stamping engine numbers except on the engines themselves. So, Don is one lucky fellow who the Good Lord must be rewarding for some not yet revealed reason. It is like winning a lottery one didn't even know about or buy a ticket for. We best all go and rub his head so some might come off on us.

[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="
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"], seriously Alfa diseased and ancient OLD Two Liter Lover, put together Seattle area's Northwest Alfa Romeo Club in 1965, and still feebly tries to tend a teeny sacred flame to his serpent mistress in the [B]ALFA G'RAJ MAHAL[/B], a home garage temple with more Alfa cars and parts than he dare list because of the disapproval of his shamed and chagrined family. (425) 641-2600.
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post #240 of 1017 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 04:56 PM
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So maybe I don't understand all this but it seems to me that the worker who was installing the plate dropped the first one and didn't want to bother taking anything apart so he(or she) just went and got another one???
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