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1900C SS Tipo IV restoration (once more with feeling)

79K views 736 replies 29 participants last post by  alfa_corsa 
#1 · (Edited)
1900C SS Series II (once more with feeling)

Ciao Alfisti!

Some of you may recall my 57 Tipo IV, #10321, which I've been working to restore for close to 6 years now. The front end was badly damaged and the first "shop" I sent her was a very bad choice indeed. I sent her to another supposed talented fabricator/restorer and while no harm was inflicted up on her (indeed, very little work was performed past the beginning of wooden buck, the car sat for almost three years and I was charged a lot of money. It was obvious she would never be completed at this place, so I took her back and today, delivered her to a third restorer in Southern California who has some experience with Tipo IVs and who has performed some very high quality restorations in the past.

I am hoping that she will finally get the attention she deserves.

I will hopefully be posting positive updates and photos in the coming weeks and months.

Ciao!
-tj in the Cruz Mtns
 
#2 ·
TJ....

Body shops teach us a muddy mixture of patience, resolve, and the need for a quick decision when the evidence is convincing that it's a lost cause.
 
#3 ·
Don,

I don't disagree. I will admit to have misinterpreted (I think, I hope) your message when I first read it. I assume you mean that the shop itself is a lost cause, and not the car itself.

-tj
 
#5 ·
I only had to rescue my 102 from a shop once, and I was lucky in that it only cost me time. That shop was just over 100 miles away. After taking the car back, it took several months until I stumbled onto the shop where it is currently-within three miles of my house. It has been there almost 2 years (sigh) and progress has been slow and not all that steady. But the work is first rate and paint is now just around the corner (starting this week). Having the shop this close to home made it easy for me to drop by for consultation on a moment’s notice. That turned out to be really important.

TJ, you say your new shop is in Southern California. Please tell me it is not in Lancaster.

Steve
 
#6 ·
Steve,

I'm sorry to hear another tale of woe. It never ceases to amaze me that these guys perpetrate their negligence on us.

No, it's not in Lancaster. I've heard enough horror stories about what's going on there. The shop my 1900 is at is Nicks Old Car Specialty in Redlands. They've done a couple Tipo IVs in the past year.

-tj
 
#7 ·
10321 has been at the new shop for just over a month and in that time more work has been completed than in the previous five years. With the buck assembled, fabrication of the front end has begun while the chassis and body are being repaired. Significant rust was found on the chassis and the shop decided it best to remove the aluminum in order to prevent damage during blasting and repair.

IMG_6751 by gearheadexchange, on Flickr

IMG_6748 by gearheadexchange, on Flickr

IMG_6140-2 by gearheadexchange, on Flickr

IMG_6139-2 by gearheadexchange, on Flickr

Ciao!

-tj in the Cruz Mtns
 
#9 ·
Hi TJ, now your car is in the right place and your are the lucky man of the month !

we must never despair, there are always competent people to restore the cars whatever their states.

your pictures remembered me our tipo 3 under work, and it's obvious that you have to remove the aluminum body for a correct restoration.

mine, after total restoration of the bird cage (sorry to put it in your post, I will not do it anymore, just to illustrate the point 0:))
 

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#11 ·
Thank you! It's hard to feel lucky after 5 years of breach of contract and lots of money lost, but I suppose it's better than getting screwed again.

No apology needed for including the photo of your Tipo 3. Please post more!

Ciao!
-tj
 
#12 ·
It has been many months since I've updated the progress on 10321, primarily because I am still waiting for my beloved Giula Sprint GT Veloce to return home. After 4+ years of being at the body shop (don't ask) she's now been at the painter for close to 4 months (don't ask). I am hoping to go retrieve her tomorrow, but after numerous missed deadlines, outright deceit, and chicanery that is frustrating in the extreme I am not counting on anything.

10321 is getting good attention, but still does not have a front end. For the past 8 months she's been at a body shop where she's has rust and collision damage from the A-pillar back repaired. Work on the front, which consists of fabricating a complete front end (from the A-pillar forward) is to begin soon.

What is the proper paint finish for the interior as well as the trunk, underbody, wheel wells and engine bay? My understanding is that all should be in matte black, with body color only on the visible interior areas (dash, A-pillars, door sills, jambs, etc. In other words, if it's visible it's body color, if it's not, it's matte black?

Am I correct in this belief?


-tj in the Cruz Mtns
 
#14 ·
A picture is worth a thousand words. There are many more pictures worth many more thousands of words if you care to look at the crimes of repair that Shin Yoshikawa perpetrated on my car. Perhaps lap welded panels (with a mig welder no less) of new aluminum over old will convince you this was an imperative.

https://flic.kr/p/21ugrXG



-tj in the Cruz Mtns
 
#15 ·
Hi TJ

Yes, for me all black as you describe.

For the dashboard, sure body color on the front, but black on the top or body color ? The problem with light body color on top, you will have always the sun reflecting who will dazzle you and get you mad... :)
(Why dashboards are always black today ?)

Chris
 
#16 ·
The T4 I was working on (10345) has satin/semi-gloss black in engine compartment, trunk, gas tank, etc. It's never been restored. I'm working on a 1900 Super now and just cleaned black paint off the underbody around the trailing arm pickups, though this car has had plenty of work but I don't think a "restoration" as such.
I think dashboards are dark now for perceived safety reasons. Anti-glare and giving contrast to the instruments.
Andrew
 
#18 ·
Thanks Franco,

They are building one for me. The original was in place but it had been cut.

Ciao!

-tj
Hi Tj,

on your pictures I do not see the Battery box


I made some copy's from the original

are you interested ?


rgds franco
 
#22 ·
Happy New Year!

Sadly I do not have my 66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce back yet (big surprise). In October I had the front left tire chuck its tread while I was on the freeway and it damaged the paint on the top of the fender, so back to the painter she went for repair. In two weeks she'll have been with the painter for 3 months and it's back to the usual procrastination. Every week he says "I'm going to paint it this weekend." Every weekend passes without the car getting painted.

It's been deja vu all over again and I'm frustrated as you might guess.

With Renzo out of the garage I set my sights on figuring out the engine trouble with the Giulietta and after two attempts to get a head gasket thick enough to get the required clearance, and two sets of bent valves I have finally thrown in the towel and admitted that it's time for to replace the head. There's some obvious wear in the #4 wrist pin (I can get a little bit of rotary movement in the piston with my fingers, even in the bore) so it's time for a complete overhaul. At this point I'm hoping that the crank and block are re-usable so I'll likely rebuild the original Veloce engine in 1300cc specification, hopefully with a set of Italian DCOEs if I can find them. The linkage and condition of the original DCO3s is to sketchy and I'd prefer to put them in a box and run new carbs.

Right now I'm looking for a relatively unskimmed 1300 head to start the rebuild, so if anyone knows of one, preferably on the West Coast, please let me know.

On a brighter note, I visited the 1900C SS in Redlands last week and she's coming along. I'm hoping that the body will be finished in the next couple of months and be back in my shop. Then it will be time to start assembling parts to figure out what I am missing, and hopefully prove that all major components are ready for road service. Due to the fact that 1900s got satin/flat black paint on the engine bay, underside, and trunk, I will be able to assemble most of the drive train and trim to make sure it fits, and then remove all exterior trim before exterior paint.

Here's a couple photos of the 1900.

IMG_1006 (1) by tjveloce, on Flickr

IMG_1010 (1) by tjveloce, on Flickr

IMG_1013 by tjveloce, on Flickr

IMG_1012 (1) by tjveloce, on Flickr

IMG_3573 by tjveloce, on Flickr

IMG_1053 by tjveloce, on Flickr

On another note, you may have seen the Series II that is going across the block at Goodings next weekend. I don't know what the reserve is but it's apparently in the $400Kish range. The car belongs to a Southern Californian and the body was done by the same shop that is doing mine.

Ciao!

-tj in the Cruz Mtns
 
#23 ·
More progress on 10321. Maybe she’ll be home by spring. In the mean time, the rain continues here in the Santa Cruz mountains.

-tj
 

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#25 ·
I just received these photos of the progress on the front of 10321. She's coming along nicely, but perhaps the most challenging part is yet to be fabricated; the inside "wing" and surrounding interior profile on the air intakes.

Still, the progress which eluded me for so many years is now being realized.

IMG_4277 by tjveloce, on Flickr

IMG_4275 by tjveloce, on Flickr

IMG_4273 by tjveloce, on Flickr

IMG_4276 by tjveloce, on Flickr

Ciao!

-tj in the Cruz Mtns
 
#27 ·
TJ, judging from what they have fabricated so far I reckon these people are able to make anything well, those contours are pretty. The nose and lower valance illustrate their technique, a section at time, the buck is the thing that that remains fixed while all the shaping is referenced to it, incidentally the buck would have been a lot of work to create again we see another discipline wood work, restoration it is so diverse.
Tim
 
#28 ·
Tim,

You are correct. The shop where she's being loved upon has far more exotic machinery than my Alfa in it. Last time I was there a Duesenberg, V16 Cadillac, and several other pre and post-war American icons were being restored.

Ironically they had no prior experience with 1900s until another owner brought a couple to them for restoration. I'd already hired another fabricator to build the buck, but it was only 75% of the way complete when I fired him and started with this shop. Between the other owner's Series II and mine they were able to determine the correct lines for the front end of the cars.

Again, it's a bit of a misconception that "everyone of these cars are different." There is a strong consistency in shape, line and build amongst Series II cars. The bodies were built on bucks and indeed there was even some outsourcing of the body panels by CarrozTouring when they were built.




Ciao!
-tj
 
#30 · (Edited)
Who can tell me with authority the style of the winged "Touring" badge that goes on the hood of a Series II car, above the word "Superleggera." It seems there are several different sizes but more importantly, am I correct in believing they should just say "Touring" in the center?

I have a small one which is 1.25" from wingtip to wingtip which reads "Touring" and a larger one which reads "TouringSuperleggera" (which I believe is NOT right as they didn't use that name until 1961) which is 2" from wingtip to wingtip. Is the small one the right one for the hood?

IMG_1745 by tjveloce, on Flickr

-tj in the Cruz Mountains
 
#31 ·
10321’s pretty face is coming together nicely.



-tj in the Cruz Mtns
 

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#32 ·
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