1900C SS Tipo IV restoration (once more with feeling) - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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1900C SS Tipo IV restoration (once more with feeling)

Ciao Alfisti!

Some of you may recall my 57 Tipo IV, #10321, which I've been working to restore for close to 6 years now. The front end was badly damaged and the first "shop" I sent her was a very bad choice indeed. I sent her to another supposed talented fabricator/restorer and while no harm was inflicted up on her (indeed, very little work was performed past the beginning of wooden buck, the car sat for almost three years and I was charged a lot of money. It was obvious she would never be completed at this place, so I took her back and today, delivered her to a third restorer in Southern California who has some experience with Tipo IVs and who has performed some very high quality restorations in the past.

I am hoping that she will finally get the attention she deserves.

I will hopefully be posting positive updates and photos in the coming weeks and months.

Ciao!
-tj in the Cruz Mtns


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57 1900C SS (10321) Carrozerria Touring (in process)
59 Giulietta Spider Veloce (05431)
66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (242922) Reborn
95 Ducati 916
92 Ducati 900SS
91 Ducati 851
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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-27-2017, 08:17 AM
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TJ....

Body shops teach us a muddy mixture of patience, resolve, and the need for a quick decision when the evidence is convincing that it's a lost cause.
PSk and horsewidower like this.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-27-2017, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Don,

I don't disagree. I will admit to have misinterpreted (I think, I hope) your message when I first read it. I assume you mean that the shop itself is a lost cause, and not the car itself.

-tj


Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
TJ....

Body shops teach us a muddy mixture of patience, resolve, and the need for a quick decision when the evidence is convincing that it's a lost cause.


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57 1900C SS (10321) Carrozerria Touring (in process)
59 Giulietta Spider Veloce (05431)
66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (242922) Reborn
95 Ducati 916
92 Ducati 900SS
91 Ducati 851
66 Ducati Mach 1 Replica
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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-27-2017, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfa_corsa View Post
Don,

I don't disagree. I will admit to have misinterpreted (I think, I hope) your message when I first read it. I assume you mean that the shop itself is a lost cause, and not the car itself.

-tj
Willfully ignoring the obvious, or knowing when "too deep" has been reached, is a widely shared myopia in this past time.

Knowing when to bail on a body shop is highly recommended as a skill. I've tried three times to never again use the shop that did my 102. Now, I'll be seeing them in court over the hard top I paid them to restore.

Sigh
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-27-2017, 06:37 PM
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I only had to rescue my 102 from a shop once, and I was lucky in that it only cost me time. That shop was just over 100 miles away. After taking the car back, it took several months until I stumbled onto the shop where it is currently-within three miles of my house. It has been there almost 2 years (sigh) and progress has been slow and not all that steady. But the work is first rate and paint is now just around the corner (starting this week). Having the shop this close to home made it easy for me to drop by for consultation on a moment’s notice. That turned out to be really important.

TJ, you say your new shop is in Southern California. Please tell me it is not in Lancaster.

Steve

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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-27-2017, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdubi View Post
I only had to rescue my 102 from a shop once, and I was lucky in that it only cost me time. That shop was just over 100 miles away. After taking the car back, it took several months until I stumbled onto the shop where it is currently-within three miles of my house. It has been there almost 2 years (sigh) and progress has been slow and not all that steady. But the work is first rate and paint is now just around the corner (starting this week). Having the shop this close to home made it easy for me to drop by for consultation on a moment’s notice. That turned out to be really important.

TJ, you say your new shop is in Southern California. Please tell me it is not in Lancaster.

Steve
Steve,

I'm sorry to hear another tale of woe. It never ceases to amaze me that these guys perpetrate their negligence on us.

No, it's not in Lancaster. I've heard enough horror stories about what's going on there. The shop my 1900 is at is Nicks Old Car Specialty in Redlands. They've done a couple Tipo IVs in the past year.

-tj


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57 1900C SS (10321) Carrozerria Touring (in process)
59 Giulietta Spider Veloce (05431)
66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (242922) Reborn
95 Ducati 916
92 Ducati 900SS
91 Ducati 851
66 Ducati Mach 1 Replica
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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-04-2017, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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10321 has been at the new shop for just over a month and in that time more work has been completed than in the previous five years. With the buck assembled, fabrication of the front end has begun while the chassis and body are being repaired. Significant rust was found on the chassis and the shop decided it best to remove the aluminum in order to prevent damage during blasting and repair.

IMG_6751 by gearheadexchange, on Flickr

IMG_6748 by gearheadexchange, on Flickr

IMG_6140-2 by gearheadexchange, on Flickr

IMG_6139-2 by gearheadexchange, on Flickr

Ciao!

-tj in the Cruz Mtns


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57 1900C SS (10321) Carrozerria Touring (in process)
59 Giulietta Spider Veloce (05431)
66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (242922) Reborn
95 Ducati 916
92 Ducati 900SS
91 Ducati 851
66 Ducati Mach 1 Replica
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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 06:22 AM
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Hi TJ

it seems, that you finally has found the right shop. Hope all will come right!

Andy, Switzerland
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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 07:18 AM
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Hi TJ, now your car is in the right place and your are the lucky man of the month !

we must never despair, there are always competent people to restore the cars whatever their states.

your pictures remembered me our tipo 3 under work, and it's obvious that you have to remove the aluminum body for a correct restoration.

mine, after total restoration of the bird cage (sorry to put it in your post, I will not do it anymore, just to illustrate the point )
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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Andy!

-tj


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57 1900C SS (10321) Carrozerria Touring (in process)
59 Giulietta Spider Veloce (05431)
66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (242922) Reborn
95 Ducati 916
92 Ducati 900SS
91 Ducati 851
66 Ducati Mach 1 Replica
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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pescara View Post
Hi TJ, now your car is in the right place and your are the lucky man of the month !

we must never despair, there are always competent people to restore the cars whatever their states.

your pictures remembered me our tipo 3 under work, and it's obvious that you have to remove the aluminum body for a correct restoration.

mine, after total restoration of the bird cage (sorry to put it in your post, I will not do it anymore, just to illustrate the point )
Thank you! It's hard to feel lucky after 5 years of breach of contract and lots of money lost, but I suppose it's better than getting screwed again.

No apology needed for including the photo of your Tipo 3. Please post more!

Ciao!
-tj


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57 1900C SS (10321) Carrozerria Touring (in process)
59 Giulietta Spider Veloce (05431)
66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (242922) Reborn
95 Ducati 916
92 Ducati 900SS
91 Ducati 851
66 Ducati Mach 1 Replica
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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-27-2018, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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It has been many months since I've updated the progress on 10321, primarily because I am still waiting for my beloved Giula Sprint GT Veloce to return home. After 4+ years of being at the body shop (don't ask) she's now been at the painter for close to 4 months (don't ask). I am hoping to go retrieve her tomorrow, but after numerous missed deadlines, outright deceit, and chicanery that is frustrating in the extreme I am not counting on anything.

10321 is getting good attention, but still does not have a front end. For the past 8 months she's been at a body shop where she's has rust and collision damage from the A-pillar back repaired. Work on the front, which consists of fabricating a complete front end (from the A-pillar forward) is to begin soon.

What is the proper paint finish for the interior as well as the trunk, underbody, wheel wells and engine bay? My understanding is that all should be in matte black, with body color only on the visible interior areas (dash, A-pillars, door sills, jambs, etc. In other words, if it's visible it's body color, if it's not, it's matte black?

Am I correct in this belief?


-tj in the Cruz Mtns


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57 1900C SS (10321) Carrozerria Touring (in process)
59 Giulietta Spider Veloce (05431)
66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (242922) Reborn
95 Ducati 916
92 Ducati 900SS
91 Ducati 851
66 Ducati Mach 1 Replica
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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-28-2018, 12:59 AM
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Gee the front alloy work didn't look beyond saving ... what a shame, but there must be a good reason (I hope).
Pete

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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-28-2018, 05:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Gee the front alloy work didn't look beyond saving ... what a shame, but there must be a good reason (I hope).
Pete
A picture is worth a thousand words. There are many more pictures worth many more thousands of words if you care to look at the crimes of repair that Shin Yoshikawa perpetrated on my car. Perhaps lap welded panels (with a mig welder no less) of new aluminum over old will convince you this was an imperative.

https://flic.kr/p/21ugrXG



-tj in the Cruz Mtns


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57 1900C SS (10321) Carrozerria Touring (in process)
59 Giulietta Spider Veloce (05431)
66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce (242922) Reborn
95 Ducati 916
92 Ducati 900SS
91 Ducati 851
66 Ducati Mach 1 Replica
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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-28-2018, 09:01 AM
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Hi TJ

Yes, for me all black as you describe.

For the dashboard, sure body color on the front, but black on the top or body color ? The problem with light body color on top, you will have always the sun reflecting who will dazzle you and get you mad... :-)
(Why dashboards are always black today ?)

Chris

Chris, in love with Alfa from...'68, but it wasn't always reciprocal !
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