2000T new project - Page 63 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #931 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Few pictures of my last visite to Alfa Classic Motor (Nicolas, the owner, love to work and modify the 2000 and 2600 engines) :

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IRONBLOCK and deepblue like this.
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post #932 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 11:50 PM
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OK I give in , wht has the fornt weber only got a vent to the jet cover ?
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post #933 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 02:25 AM Thread Starter
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Well see !
Here's how Nicolas connects his Weber :

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Of course, that is not working and Nicolas (like me) is obliged to drill the jet cover.

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As he found the solution not very nice, he had imagine a washer with peripherical drills.

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The picture show a test we have made on this carburator.

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post #934 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:22 AM
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Where did he get his Weber intake manifold from or does he have a hidden stash. I don't remember the cam cover gasket being that thick but the engine is a thing of beauty.
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post #935 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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The gasket has edges that go back on the camshaft cover. This is like it was originally.
The collector is an original one modified. He "just" install conical tubes to have straight ducts.

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Most of you won't understand the French explanations, but watch the video until the end, it is great.

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post #936 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 12:55 PM
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I saw over 7000 rpm on the test stand, close to 7500 and it was as smooth as could be and then it dropped down to a 600 rpm idle. I'm amazed that they would take the engine up that high. What a lovely engine and a truly great sound as the engine revved up. Do you have any idea what they think the horsepower and torque might be with the rebuild?
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post #937 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bora1978 View Post
Do you have any idea what they think the horsepower and torque might be with the rebuild?
No idea ...
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post #938 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 03:12 PM
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WEBER 2600

Hi All,

we are making 1:1 copy from the original 2600 weber inlet cast

for info PM ( [email protected] )

RGDS Franco
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post #939 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 09:14 AM
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Nice work, but this engine or a similar was really tested on a car, on the road ?

I have the impression that he only breathes after 4500 and that the curve is not asymptotic classic but rather flat and rises quickly. Maybe the power is "up" and it's not famous for everyday use.

Just my opinion. It would be great to have a diagram.

I had my first 2600 in 1983 ( as time has passed)... And I assume that engine with nice restored solex work very well.

I do not want to play the holiday turmoil, thank you for sharing !

Chris

Chris, in love with Alfa from...'68, but it wasn't always reciprocal !
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post #940 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 08:32 AM
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Hi Serge,

Have you come up with a nice solution to vent the float chamber into the intake air stream? I guess I am waiting to see what you come up with before I do anything.

Mark

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Originally Posted by PS70 View Post
Thank you very much Jay !

That is the first time I realize that the tubes are in fact placed in the axis and in the middle of the air flow.
A assume it is the same on the 2600 weber adaptation.
That will clearly not produce the same effect as a perpendicular tube.
If I had read the principle of a Pitot tube before, I could have learn that :
1 - a perpendicular tube read the static pression ==> A depression in fact.
2 - a tube place into the axis of the flow read the dynamic pression ==> This will be bigger than the atmospheric pression and, as you point it out, will push the fuel.

I will think about a nice solution : Great !
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post #941 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 09:04 AM
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Mark,

Are you talking about your 2000 or 2600? If so either, TRY THE VF TUBES.

I’m pretty sure Keith Franck offers a money-back guarantee, so there’s no excuse not to try.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #942 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Mark,
Unfortunately the car is at the saddler for the soft top and the tonneau cover since one month now and he didn't start anything yet ...
I have a quite good idea of how I will proceed but I need to have the car with me. As soon as I will start working on this item I'll report on the forum.

Don,
I'll order the VF tube tomorrow. Thank you for all the detail given on this thread :https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/190...-curves-2.html
This is for sure a good solution but working in parallel on the float chamber vent is not incompatible.
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post #943 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Front plate with Aluminium moulded letters :

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I'll install it tomorrow at the saddler.
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post #944 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 12:25 PM
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Actually, I think working on a float chamber vent may be creating a new problem.

We can all agree that it is a common problem to have a dead spot when accelerating with Webers. What is the problem?

The reason to have the float vented into the same chamber as the air intake is so that there is no difference between the air pressure entering the carb and the pressure acting on top of the fuel in the float bowl. If the inlet pressure always matches the float bowl pressure, then the fuel flow into the carb throat through the auxiliary venturi will respond ONLY to the airspeed passing the orifice in the aux-venturi. To have a predictable and controlled flow, you want to have no other factors impacting the fuel flow. If the air pressure on top of the fuel in the float chamber is changing in comparison to the pressure entering the carb, you will get either more or less fuel entering the carb, and it will not be in response to the changing air flow rate going into the engine.

Optimally, if the air pressure in the plenum was to go down for any reason, you would want the air pressure above the fuel in the float chamber to go down in unison.

So - at some points in time, lots of people, including Alfa, have experimented with having the float pressure picked up somewhere other than next to the carb inlet. Did this solve the problem? Did it simply masquerade the problem by adding another variable? The wide variety of Emulsion tubes hints that the problem is a sticky one, with compromises remaining to this day.

I suggest that the problem may have been that the E-tubes simply weren't researched and developed to where they actually worked perfectly. This is Keith Franck's position. If an E-Tube is perfectly designed to match the fall-off of the idle circuit in balance with the onset of the main circuit, then one doesn't experience the power slump in the middle from a too rich (or too lean) mixture. If one has a perfect E-tube, venting the float bowl to anywhere other than the same source as the air inlet could introduce a differing float pressure with respect to the inlet pressure, complicating or even defeating the perfection of the ideal E-Tube.

Thus - I strongly encourage you to try the VF tubes before you move the float vent pickup away from the inlet plenum. Simply opening the top of the cap would remove the necessary connect between the float pressure and the inlet pressure.

I acknowledge that Keith's research is on going, and I have questions about some of his assumptions as well. The one thing I can't argue with is that his VF tube, by itself, has noticeably improved the performance of my 2300. I didn't have a noticeable power sag in the mid revs, but now that it's better, I realize I had one, just not the debilitating one we sometimes see on 2000s and 2600s.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #945 of 968 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 12:29 PM
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I may try to get a video-with-sound of my car accelerating. Stay tuned.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
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