Wire wheel conversion kits - info request - Page 6 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #76 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-12-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by johnrdm View Post
Thank you for all the info in this thread.

I am planning on getting a set of Borrani's for my 1963 2600 Spider (drums rear, disks front).

I am planning to fit 165HR4000 Pirelli CA67 tires with tubes.

It seems I have the choice of the slightly wider RW3906 (127mm) or the thinner RW 3582 (which has replaced RW3753) at 118mm.

How can I pick between these two wheels?

JM
John, I myself would go with 175HR400 CA67 on RW3906 rims. To me, the 165HR400 (no matter whether Michelin or Pirelli) just look too skinny (like motorcycle tires). With respect to performance, the 165 tires probably have less rolling resistance (better fuel mileage) and make it easier to park the car sideways, but a car with 175 tires probably will feel better on drives on a highway, with rolling hills and reasonably wide curves.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #77 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 06:07 AM
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Thanks Ruedi,

You made me go take a close look a these three tires-I agree the Pirelli's do look like motorcycle tires!

I prefer the look of the 165SR400 Michelin X Stop.

How are they to drive on?

JM
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post #78 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-14-2018, 07:25 AM
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wheels and tires

What are the tire recommendations for a for a 102 spider with 15 inch 5" wide steel wheels. I had to have wheels fabricated due to some non-original aspects of the car. It will sport stock hubcaps. It will look stock to anyone except a reader of this forum. 205/70/15? 195/70/15 ? 215/65/15? I do have the correct offset. I would like the flat modern handling that Don discusses above.

thanks.

Neil
1958 Touring Spider in restoration
1963 Giulia Spider "slightly" abnormale
1967 Giulia Sprint GT (aka Stepnose) with 3.0 V6 and a/c
Now full time in Magalia CA.
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post #79 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-14-2018, 07:34 AM
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wheels and tires

What are the tire recommendations for a for a 102 spider with 15 inch 5" wide steel wheels. I had to have wheels fabricated due to some non-original aspects of the car. It will sport stock hubcaps. It will look stock to anyone except a reader of this forum. 205/70/15? 195/70/15 ? 215/65/15? I do have the correct offset. I would like the flat modern handling that Don discusses above.

thanks.

Neil
1958 Touring Spider in restoration
1963 Giulia Spider "slightly" abnormale
1967 Giulia Sprint GT (aka Stepnose) with 3.0 V6 and a/c
Now full time in Magalia CA.
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post #80 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-14-2018, 12:45 PM
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Neil,

Very happy to read evidence of your continued existence. Reports from your casa?

The correct aspect ratio of our tires is similar to the US "78". My P4 Pirellis are, I think, a 65 ratio, but they are also 16", so comparison is risky. I like the look of both the original CA67 and the big-muscle-car-look of the wire wheels and P4 tires.

If I were you, I'd come up with something around 195/65-15. However, determine the diameter/rolling circumference of the CA67s, and diddle with the width and aspect ratio to get a close match on the diameter. The limiting factor on the 102 is inner wheel well clearance. Both front and rear impose a significant limit.

Given what you're doing with your car, the more muscle-y tires makes sense.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #81 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 03:44 AM
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All the 400mm tyres that fit these cars are listed on this page https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/cla...omeo/2600.html

If you click on a tyre picture it will take you to another page about the tyre giving you more specific detail including dimensions, which are

165HR400 Pirelli Cinturato CA67 - 666mm diameter 167mm section width
175HR400 Pirelli Cinturato CA67 - 682mm diameter 176mm section width
165SR400 Michelin X - 677mm diameter 162mm section width

So the Michelin is the thinnest. Also the Michelin X, has a very different shape, in that being a very early radial it is taller, and the tread is very thin but it does have sharp edges to the shoulders of its tread, which make it a lovely light tyre to drive on and i would say for pootling around it is perfect and the best for steady use. I would put a Michelin X on a Citroen Traction Avant every day of the week

Weather to fit 165 or 175 is a tricky one. and i would agree that the longer legs of the 175 might be interesting, but the 165 will give more sporty handling, so it would depend which way you wanted to go. Motorways 175 - wiggly roads 165

By the way; the page on our web site is intended to give informative data to help you make the right choice. So if you see any mistakes on there please inform us so we can make it as helpful as possible

In the States these tyres come from https://www.lucasclassictires.com/Pi...urato_c255.htm


195/65R15

195mm wide. much too wide. Also it will be a modern low profile tyre so the foot print will be much wider in relation to the width of the tyre. It will probably have a 6" maybe even 7" wide foot print on a car with a 4.5" wide tread pattern in mind when it was built. I wouldn't want to put that much extra load on my car. We have been down the handling argument before, and of course you guys will make your own mind up.

195/65R15 will have a diameter of ((195mm X 65%) X 2) + (15" X 25.4) 633.5mm in my mind not nearly tall enough.

If you have 15" wheels, this is the best tyre https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/mic...helin-xas.html
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post #82 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 07:06 AM
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Thank you very much for that info and opinion dougal.

After much research, head scratching and input from this forum, I am leaning to the Borrani RW3906 with Michelin 165SR400 Michelin X Stop tires.

John M
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post #83 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Neil Martin View Post
What are the tire recommendations for a for a 102 spider with 15 inch 5" wide steel wheels. I had to have wheels fabricated due to some non-original aspects of the car. It will sport stock hubcaps. It will look stock to anyone except a reader of this forum. 205/70/15? 195/70/15 ? 215/65/15? I do have the correct offset. I would like the flat modern handling that Don discusses above.

thanks.
Neil,

I think I recall you saying that both the front and rear suspension were NOT 102 components. On the front, does this mean only the brakes are different, or that all of the A-arms, upright, etc have also been changed?

On my car, the P4 tires scrub very slightly when steered full-lock, in a slow turn. Its not a disabling problem, but will give you some idea of the limits.

If your front suspension (or rear, for that matter) position the wheel even slightly more inward or outward, that will reduce your clearance. I know you built your wheels with the original offset, but if your non-102 components have a different mounting plane, youd want to have wheels with a different offset to compensate.

It would be remarkable if an entirely non-102 suspension matched the 102 mounting plane.

All of the above was intended to address your handling goals, but I realized there was ambiguity in just what your suspension is set up to do.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #84 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 07:40 AM
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I think I'm ok. Stock 102 on front except disk/calipers which are larger. Rear drum perhaps smaller. I had an ugly steel wheel which fit used for clearance and measuring. I can only go 5 inch wide and works well with 15 inch rims. The car was modified in every way possible and the best I can do is return the appearance to stock. Every suspension component was replaced or rebuilt. My new wheels should be done by the end of the week (well, if you believe the vendor) and I'll post a picture.

Thanks.

Neil
1958 Touring Spider in restoration
1963 Giulia Spider "slightly" abnormale
1967 Giulia Sprint GT (aka Stepnose) with 3.0 V6 and a/c
Now full time in Magalia CA.
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post #85 of 85 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 09:40 AM
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Neil,

Not that you need me butting in, but having battled clearances when doing non-stock things, I figured I'd try to avoid a big problem.

I'll get you the size of my 16" wheels later today. I'm on a dead run right now. They fit OK in my rear wells, UNLESS I've got a big load of luggage in the trunk, and two-up in front. Then they scrub at the top of the wells. Not a problem for 99% of the driving I do.

Alfa uses very soft springs in the back of pretty much all of their street cars. It's an interesting solution to get a comfortable ride, with good handling. If you want to significantly improve your handling over a stock 102 to make it more sporting, it'll probably require a rear roll bar and stiffer springs. The cars, as set up originally, lean like a drunken sailor.

Of course, small changes can have surprising effects. The 102 engine is fairly heavy. A lighter engine could change things.

Drop me a PM about the homestead, if you don't mind. Hoping all is OK.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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