1991 164 new owner - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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1991 164 new owner

Hello All
I'm a long time car collector and enthusiast that has very little knowledge on Italian cars. I had an opportunity to purchase a very solid no rust early Fiat 128S coupe and a 2nd gen alfa spider project, in doing so I also ended up with a 91 164. I'm much more interested in the 1st two cars and will probably not keep the 164. I'm trying to learn a little about it as I've never had one. I was pleasantly surprised as it starts up and runs pretty strong, actually stronger than I expected. It has no badging on it but it does have a rear spoiler, what is the best way to determine the sub model as in an "S" or "L" or ? The car seems to be pretty complete but it does show it age a bit. From the little I have recently learned this does seem to be a pretty well designed car and it does look to have a following. If I do decide to sell it I would like it to go to a enthusiast or someone who would appreciate it and possibly return it to its former glory. Any thoughts or advice on what to do with the 164
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 03:23 PM
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Sell IT! Don't even talk like that to this group. What is VIN and what is Engine code which is located on the rear of engine block below rear of front head? Please tell us engine code and what comes after ZAR on VIN.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 04:38 PM
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Welcome, hope you enjoy the driving experience of the 164, it's really quite fantastic. Pictures?... :-) Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of the 128 coupe too, that was my very first car.

Cheers,

Carson, 4 Alfa's, 9 Cars, 4 Motorcycles
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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From the very little I have driven the 164 I do believe it would be a fun daily driver. I will post a couple of pictures of the cars once I get my post count up to do so. The 128 coupe is someone's stalled project but it appears to be pretty much all there but partially taken apart for restoration. It is remarkably rust free, my experience in Europe with older fiats is that being very rare. I looked at the 164 this morning and I hope these are the engine #'s Steve has asked for AR064 12 015850 these were taken off the block under the distributor. The VIN is ZAREA43L4M6****** As far as keeping it, that is definitely up in the air but my desire to learn about the Alfa will stay as I plan on restoring the 1982 Spider that I also bought in this group of cars. Thanks for any input as I do enjoy learning about the cars I own.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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I do see it is a 164L based off of the VIN I have not been able to determine what the differences are between the trim levels. Back to the search
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 09:37 AM
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I do see it is a 164L based off of the VIN I have not been able to determine what the differences are between the trim levels. Back to the search
AR06412 015850 is for a 164L and the VIN ZAREA43L4M6****** is for a 164L chassis so a match. Whatever the chassis number digits are and the date of manufacture on tag in driver's door will reveal early or late production configuration of this 164L..

Spoiler on deck lid is a definite add on now is it Factory S spoiler or Zender kit add on is still UNK.

When you get enough posts to be able to post photos please do so we can access how mofified the outside look is now set up. Since it is an 164L there should be a square 3rd brake light under glass with black surround inside rear glass. The S models came with clear rear glass and "Corvette" GM 3rd brake light mounted on deck lid under spoiler.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 08-24-2019 at 09:42 AM.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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The production date seems extremely early for a 1991, it has a 4/90 build date. Any idea what the body sequence #'s start at? I will look my self this evening also. It definitely has the " L " 3rd brake light and for the spoiler my guess would be it's OEM due to the shape and fitment but I could be wrong. Was the 3rd brake light integrated into the spoiler or did it mount to the deck lid? Mine has 4 mounting points and a recess on the top face and no provision for a brake light. I will also look for pictures to compare.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 02:05 PM
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The production date seems extremely early for a 1991, it has a 4/90 build date. Any idea what the body sequence #'s start at? I will look my self this evening also. It definitely has the " L " 3rd brake light and for the spoiler my guess would be it's OEM due to the shape and fitment but I could be wrong. Was the 3rd brake light integrated into the spoiler or did it mount to the deck lid? Mine has 4 mounting points and a recess on the top face and no provision for a brake light. I will also look for pictures to compare.
1990 build date for most all the early USA spec 164s. I have even had some built in 89 sold as USA 1991 models. What is chassis number My first one I bought new in 91 a 164B was a 3-90 with 6179200. My 91 164L has a 6184545 chassis and was built 04-90. My S was built in 1-91 with a 620xxxx chassis.


If your L has brake light on back of rear cargo shelf and blacked out trim around it in rear glass and it car has a spoiler it is add on trust me. S as I said had Corvette light mounted on trunk lid under spoiler not on spoiler. Spoiler could be off and S or Zender kit. If S rear trunk lid there should be filled plugged holes for S brake light.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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It looks like our '91 164L's are pretty close in sequence, mines 184397. I have no reason to doubt the spoiler wasn't added at some point, I was trying to say it looked to be of OEM quality. I don't believe the deck lid had any type of additional hole that would be used for the wiring or mounting. I'm not at the car now to look to be 100%. Thanks for the insight, it's made my search for answer easier. I look forward to spending a little time with the car in the near future for a basic check over and adding a few more miles to the odometer. I will get some pictures posted soon as I would enjoy hearing thoughts and suggestions
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 05:39 PM
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Welcome. Drive it and enjoy it. This is the site to come for help.


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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 11:35 PM
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Enjoy the 164L but be sure if you don't have some maintenance history on the last timing belt change it is best to install a new timing belt and inspect the tensioner and water pump.

Also in front of that is the serpentine poly-7v belt and tensioner. the 3rd belt is a poly 5v for alternator and a 4th one for power steering is a old style v belt.

Is your L a 5-speed or AT model?

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 08-25-2019 at 01:16 AM.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsms View Post
Hello All
I'm a long time car collector and enthusiast that has very little knowledge on Italian cars. I had an opportunity to purchase a very solid no rust early Fiat 128S coupe and a 2nd gen alfa spider project, in doing so I also ended up with a 91 164. I'm much more interested in the 1st two cars and will probably not keep the 164. I'm trying to learn a little about it as I've never had one. I was pleasantly surprised as it starts up and runs pretty strong, actually stronger than I expected. It has no badging on it but it does have a rear spoiler, what is the best way to determine the sub model as in an "S" or "L" or ? The car seems to be pretty complete but it does show it age a bit. From the little I have recently learned this does seem to be a pretty well designed car and it does look to have a following. If I do decide to sell it I would like it to go to a enthusiast or someone who would appreciate it and possibly return it to its former glory. Any thoughts or advice on what to do with the 164
Congrats on choice of cars. I am very familiar with all three. Do not sell 164 short. like all Alfas the more you get to know it the more there is to like. This group is amazing. On a good day someone may even help you with some of your other projects. Can you post a picture of the 128s. Cheers

164LS 1994
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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I'm guessing these are interference engines? Timing belts are always a concern on unknown history engines. This car and the other two came from a well respected Italian repair shop and used dealer. The 128s and the spider were his projects and the 164 I believe was one he had for sale or possibly getting ready for sale. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to find out the service history on it. My 1st impression after driving it was he had done some work to it but I'm only speculating. I will definitely give it a good look over before driving it much more just for safety sake. The 164L is an auto so definitely not as fun as it could have been. I have very eclectic taste in cars and tend to keep the ones that are the least known or common. In my reading I came across a 164Q (I believe) that my understanding was converted by Styer/Puch to be all wheel drive from the factory. I found this interesting as I have a Diamler/Styer/Puch Pinzgauer 710K in my collection. I do look forward to learning more about the 164L as it is a car I have never owned and very rarely seen. It's definitely not the style vehicle I would have thought of when thinking of an Alfa but I do like it. It appears to be an either "you love it or you hate it" (maybe not in such strong terms) car in the Alfa line up. I'm glad I found this group as there does seem to be a knowledgeable following of them here. I should be getting close to my post count so pictures should be coming soon along with many "new owner" questions
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 01:01 PM
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You're thinking of the 164 Q4. There was actually a recent post about one being for sale (I think in the NW area). The 164 Q was basically a 164 S with the 24v engine from the LS.

Correction: It was in Canada, on eBay. Looks like it didn't sell.

1994 164 Q4 on eBay

Paul - 1972 Spider - (2)1991 164S's - 1983 308 - 2001 Discovery - 1997 F350

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 02:26 PM
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Some 164 specs 1987-1997

164 1991-1993 USA spec pecking order:
164B came 183 HP 3.0L 12v V6 with steel wheels, fabric seats and without ABS and remote door locks. Otherwise all L options such as A/T, sun roof, leather seats and alloy wheels were options.

164L came with ABS, remote locks leather seats and alloy wheels. A/T, and sunroof were options. Have seen some with fabric seats and no sunroof but rare.

164S came 200 hp 3.0L 12v V6 with pepperoni slicer wheels, electric struts ECU/Accelerometer control suspension, hotter cams higher compression pistons larger AFM and different engine ECU, larger exhaust, dual pipe cat, bolstered leather seats, sun roof, lower body kit and rear deck spoiler and dual outlet rear muffler. Recaros were an option very rare.

164 1994-95 USA spec

LS 210HP 24v 3.0L w/39mm intake tubes, larger exhaust system and cat with oval rear muffler tip., different body cladding, bumpers interior form 164L, sun roof and different alloy wheels. A/T still an option.

164Q 230 HP 24v with 45mm intake tubes, same exhaust as LS but Q rear muffler. Same wheels and body kit as 164S same bolstered seats as S but Recaros might have been an option.

Euro 164Q4 AWD w/6-speed manual 24v 3.0L V6 probably 230 HP like 164Q.


There were twin spark 4cyl, 4cyl diesels, 2.0L V6 turbos. 12v and 24v V6 models many variants. Model run from 1987-97. about 270k built worldwide

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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