164 A/C conversion colder air MOD - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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164 A/C conversion colder air MOD

164 A/C conversion use kit 50-2551A https://www.oldairproducts.com/produ...poa-update-kit

CAVEAT: I JUST NOTICED SINCE THE ORIGINAL TRINARY switch is retained I wonder why you would even need the new low pressure switch except to plug the port. The trinary switch has both low and high pressure switches.

Here's what my friend Ralph did on his 91 164L. He sent me these pictures I may have to resize to get on here.
Deleted original POA valve body & installed new manifold kit 50-2551A. Note: the 50-2551A kit has R134a fitting The 50-2551 kit has R12 fitting so would need the NAPA steel R134a fitting added to R12 port.Pic#1
Converted to R134a. Pics#2&3
Relocated clamp & thickened bushing to accommodate configuration of new manifold. Pic#4
Had new hose made for new manifold from/to compressor with proper size fitting @ new manifold end. Pic#5
New manifold fitting accommodates 164 R12 or R134a expansion valve capillary tube. Pics#6
Plugged & capped one unused fitting on new manifold (orange cap distinguishes from blue cap low side & red cap high side). Pic#8
Installed new low pressure switch (comes with kit) circuit by added into existing harness @ red connector plug to trinary switch on receiver dryer. Pics#9

See the oldair link above to see the new manifold that replaces POA valve now on USA spec 164s.

I posted this on downloadable guides and my maintenance sticky, too.

I have seen this mod on his 164L in Orlando Viva Alfa event and at Neville's Mighty Oak event, too.
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 08-19-2019 at 05:36 AM.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 02:25 PM
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How much was he able to drop the blower outlet temperatures with this mod? Cost?

John Stewart
74 Spider
91 164S
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 04:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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How much was he able to drop the blower outlet temperatures with this mod? Cost?
Don't know on temp but manifold part cost $95.

Cost of new hose unk. I will ask Ralph those questions. Standby to stand by.

I have bought the manifold kit from ebayer being shipped to me here in VB this week.

He just said about 49F at dash with 95F ambient. I got about 59 the other day at 87F ambient in BB1. Used to get 39 at dash with my 164B with R12.

I got about 55 at dash today in BB1 with R134a conversion going to town on interstate today. Only R134a components in BB1 are the Parker Hanneffin R134a expansion valve and the Sanden SD-7H15 compressor OEM for 94/95 24v. As for BB1 164L I have larger 24v radiator behind to original 91 condenser.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 08-20-2019 at 09:21 AM.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 09:39 AM
Del
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This is interesting. Will want to know just how much diff this change really makes, not that I need it here. The 91S a/c could be a lot better, though, is not nearly as good as the LS.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 09:46 AM
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I think a parallel flow condenser helps a great deal with a R134 conversion.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 10:08 AM
Del
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You may be correct, should be better, but when I put one of those you mentioned in, it just didn't make much difference. Granted, it may be deficient in working fluid now, or whatever, but still... the fluid pressures were within the correct working range according to the gauges when the shop finished the conversion to 134a, and yet, not a whole lot of improvement. Still pretty weak in comparison.

Will have to take another look I guess.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 08-20-2019 at 10:24 AM.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 02:27 PM
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Larger parallel flow (like the units I have) are the biggest help with these systems. Little larger and better at removing heat. I was getting around 24F-37F out of the vents depending on ambient temps/humidity with R134a. Everything was stock otherwise. Insulation on hoses and making sure there is no air leaks in venting, you will be fine. If you have tint the better. I did not like tint so I don't have it on any car even though it helps.


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1989 Spider Quad. Gone
1991 White Alfa Romeo 164S Recaro, Siena, Zender.-GONE
2010 Touareg TDI
2017 Giulia Ti Sport Q4, Trofeo, Leather package(red), Staggered.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 03:43 PM
Del
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With the a/c system in our 91S, with a newer parallel condenser, all insulation in decent shape, working fluid pressures adequate, etc, converted over to 134a by a competent shop, we get about 45-50F at the vents. That's in Seattle, lol. Hate to think what it would do in Phoenix.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
With the a/c system in our 91S, with a newer parallel condenser, all insulation in decent shape, working fluid pressures adequate, etc, converted over to 134a by a competent shop, we get about 45-50F at the vents. That's in Seattle, lol. Hate to think what it would do in Phoenix.
No 25+ year old car does well in phx that is Italian. The 164 was hot unless I was moving consistently. Even then it was hot with no tint, old car, blazing hot temps. There is something to say for new technology, my giulia was nice and cool in phx last time I was there.


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New: +1 619-209-0715
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San Diego, CA
1989 Spider Quad. Gone
1991 White Alfa Romeo 164S Recaro, Siena, Zender.-GONE
2010 Touareg TDI
2017 Giulia Ti Sport Q4, Trofeo, Leather package(red), Staggered.

Last edited by Alfissimo Int.; 08-20-2019 at 06:23 PM.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 07:37 PM
Del
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Our LS was faultless in the hot SW whenever we drove there.

Oh, and the 91S does have the electric valve installed in the heater line as well. That helps a little.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 08-20-2019 at 10:10 PM.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 06:24 AM
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If theres one thing that works right on my 164 its the AC. In fact when I was talking to the guys at Alfa Auto Clinic they remarked "oh yeah your uncles car was the one with the super cold AC". Not sure what changes were made if any, but I'm not complaining.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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