Doing the 24v timing belt dance. - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Doing the 24v timing belt dance.

I moved the '95 LS into the workshop. Both boys were available, so, with a bit of bribery involving ribs and some freshly made caprese salad, they helped push the car into the workshop. My D-I-L participated by steering it into position. It was surprisingly easy to push.

I'll get it up on the lift this evening, after removing all the sand dust that is on areas that I'll be leaning over/brushing against. The horse arena provides an endless amount of unbound sandpaper courtesy of the breeze. Then I'll organize the work space.

First thing I'll need to do is find all the tools. I know I purchased cam locks. And, given that I need to move all the GTV6 parts to the storage garage, I'll probably run into them in that process. Once I've found the tools, the plan is to pull the sparkplugs and check both banks for any tattle tale marks of piston/valve intersection. Have bore gauge, will travel. If none are found, we'll move on to the normal timing belt replacement. If I find them, I'll pull the head(s) off the '94 and replace any suspect parts. This is the one area that could ruin my timetable. I'd like to avoid having to have anything go to the machine shop.

Assuming no witness marks, the plan is to get everything prep'd for the R&R over the first week of September. I should have enough time between now and then to have all the parts ordered and on hand, and tools found/ordered and on hand to do the job.

As always, there will be pictures.

Bob

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https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/1012443-post28.html

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Last edited by horsewidower; 09-06-2019 at 09:01 PM.
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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 12:16 PM
Del
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Have you actually determined if the timing is off, whether or not you end up changing the belt? Did you install the new ignition modules you were going to order? Would be nice to know before you start dismantling things. Just for your knowledge of what could go wrong, for possibly a next time.

Del

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1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Del, given that the belt was either past needing to be changed, or just about needing to be changed (you’ve seen the threads discussing it) I’m going to jump in and do the belt change. Which obviously means I’ll be setting cam timing, eliminating any chance of crashing valves. Once that’s done, I’ll move back to dealing with any other issues.

The last time I started it, it ran so poorly that I want to deal with cam timing, belts, pulleys etc before turning it over again.


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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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It's up on the lift. Quick underbody inspection. I now know why it sounded so dang good on the way down from Washington...both mufflers have holes. LOL

Two other things of note. Front side downpipe has a bit of a crush in it. There is fluid under the clutch, steering rack area. I know it has a clutch problem, so I'm going to hope it's that. I have those parts. I did the rack on the '94, I'll scavenge that if I need to. A bit of oil under the area of the belt cover. We'll obviously figure that out when we tear into the belts.

It's suppose to be 100*+ until the weekend. We'll see how far we get.
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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsewidower View Post
I moved the '95 LS into the workshop. Both boys were available, so, with a bit of bribery involving ribs and some freshly made caprese salad, they helped push the car into the workshop. My D-I-L participated by steering it into position. It was surprisingly easy to push.

I'll get it up on the lift this evening, after removing all the sand dust that is on areas that I'll be leaning over/brushing against. The horse arena provides an endless amount of unbound sandpaper courtesy of the breeze. Then I'll organize the work space.

First thing I'll need to do is find all the tools. I know I purchased cam locks. And, given that I need to move all the GTV6 parts to the storage garage, I'll probably run into them in that process. Once I've found the tools, the plan is to pull the sparkplugs and check both banks for any tattle tale marks of piston/valve intersection. Have bore gauge, will travel. If none are found, we'll move on to the normal timing belt replacement. If I find them, I'll pull the head(s) off the '94 and replace any suspect parts. This is the one area that could ruin my timetable. I'd like to avoid having to have anything go to the machine shop.

Assuming no witness marks, the plan is to get everything prep'd for the R&R over the first week of September. I should have enough time between now and then to have all the parts ordered and on hand, and tools found/ordered and on hand to do the job.

As always, there will be pictures.

Bob
If anything I bet if it did slip it was 1-2 teeth as the motor is running but not well, correct?

I have cam locks if needed to borrow.

As noted in a previous post, when I set up timing I make #1 piston is at top of towards the end of the plateau right before it falls.
This was a tip from a long time Alfa mechanic friend in the UK. While you are at it, either replace 2 rear camshaft washers and or add chalk.

Let me know if I can help.

Ciao


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post #6 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I have cam locks if needed to borrow.

As noted in a previous post, when I set up timing I make #1 piston is at top of towards the end of the plateau right before it falls.
This was a tip from a long time Alfa mechanic friend in the UK. While you are at it, either replace 2 rear camshaft washers and or add chalk.

Let me know if I can help.

Ciao
I'll get a hold of you for parts. I'll look around a bit harder to try and find my cam locks, if I can't I'll let you know and you can send them with my order. I'll be doing it soon so I won't keep them for long. I really appreciate the offer.
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post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 01:01 PM
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the 164 24v down pipe(s) double wall and shallow oil pans

"Front side downpipe has a bit of a crush in it."

FYI that front down pipe on 24v is double wall so inner pipe probably still round and OK inside it.

Myron's 95LS was like that from him finding concrete parking lot wheel stoppers or high curbs. Also another production change was installing shallower "7 qt" oil pans on later 12v and 24v engines to save the park by sound/feel CROWD from taking out the deep 8qt pans. what's a little dent in a exhaust pipe outer wall if is saves both down pipes and oil pans?
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post #8 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting site:

https://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_v6_cam_belt.shtml

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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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The heat is slowing me down. Shop was 98 at 8:30 this evening, and we have more of the same through at least Friday. This weekend it's supposed to cool down, so I should get some progress then.

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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
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Jamie Porter is the one that helped me years ago with timing on these cars. He told me all sorts of little tricks to get it set perfect.
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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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I need to order parts from Jason next week, so I'll continue to unwrap this problem over the weekend. After I do some R&R on the GVT6's ignition wiring.

Some preliminary pictures:
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 03:35 PM
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Compress and pin off that serpentine belt shock/strut tensioner AFTER loosening 3 M6 bolts on both water pump and power steering pump pulleys.

I think I remember you also have to remove crank pulley nut with air impact gun and remove pulley to get 24v timing belt off because of the large half moon teeth on timing belt won't clear between front cover and back side of pulley

Pin off timing belt tensioner, too if you can compress piston if you have factory weighted arm tool to be able to use as lever to compress to align rig pin hole.
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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 04:07 PM
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belt will fit in sideways between pulley and cover, no need to remove crank harmonic dampener/pulley. Use rig pin in both the serp belt tensioner bracket (3/16 drill bit shank end) and timing belt tensioner (1/8 drill bit shank end)
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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 10:45 AM
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While digging around in there, have you been able to check up above whether or not the belt timing was off, before you pull the belt off? Just so you know, even if you are changing the belt?

I think this is important to know first, before tearing into things. Helps in possibly needed diagnostics later on.
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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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With the combination of really hot weather, and helping a buddy move and paint the interior of his house, I just haven't gotten far enough into the car.

I'm off from 8/30 to 9/9 and intend to make this and the GTV6 top priorities. I had planned to run up to a buddy's house this weekend and start re-constructing his racecar, but he bailed...something about realizing it was his wedding anniversary. Excuses, Excuses.
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