164 rear long bolt removal - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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164 rear long bolt removal

Hi,
Had this idea for removing these long bolts a while ago and today finally put it to the test.
We are talking the 200mm M10 bolts that run through the bottom of the rear dampers and lateral arms - the ones that tend to sieze solid.
The technique was simply as follows:
While the car was jacked up, rear wheel removed, I loosened the 17mm nut by quarter of a turn. I then white marked the positions of the nut, bolt and arms and both ends, to detect any movement.
When the car was lowered, due to suspension loadings, the rear most (adjustable) lateral arm rotated a little on the bolt - see the picture with the arrow. The arm at the front end didn't move and nor did the bolt.
Drove the car and a mile down the road, while gently braking to a halt, heard a 'clonk' from the rear. Haven't checked yet but assume the other arm rotated on the bolt or even the bolt itself. If this is the case it means the bolt is now 'only' gripped by the hub/damper and attempts to free it there will no longer have to include a combined battle against the two lateral arms.

Updates to follow.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 03:23 PM
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Wow that's a lot of rust!

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2018 Giulia TI
1988 Milano Gold Automatic (new arrival)

Previously Owned: 76 Alfetta GT, 81 Spider, 88 Milano, 89 Spider, 94 164LS (totaled 3/20/19)
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 03:37 PM
Del
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Ack. No wonder you might be having trouble with those bolts. Luckily, in my 91S, the bolts, and associated structures near by, are still just fine. The sloppy wet snow and rain we get just washes away any salt we might have on the roads in the winter.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 08-08-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 04:53 PM
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I hammered the hell out of mine to get them out, used a ton of pb blaster, then once out I needed to rethread both of them with my tap and die set. They are good now.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 06:11 PM
Del
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Hope you used a ton of anti-seize goop on them. Would have been better to buy new ones and then use the goop.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 10:14 PM
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A very unpleasant job of pulling out this bolt, but I always succeeded. I donít have my own pictures, how I did it, but there is a video how to do it on 156, the same design. WD-40, key and hammer. We create a key force on the bolt on the one hand, and on the other hand with a knocking hammer. Yes, maybe a long time,
but it always worked out. Slowly, back and forth. Trying to unscrew the bolt immediately - no need, it will break.

Alfetta 2.0 ,76 Ex / Alfa 75 2.0 TS,91 Ex
Alfa 164 3.0 24V Super,95 / Alfa MITO 1.4 ,09
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 02:55 AM Thread Starter
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Great answers and will be taking it 'easy' when getting it out. Indeed a lot of rust - never been changed before. Have new bolts but don't intend to snap these ones. Will be interesting to see exactly where the bolt/arms have freed off. Was thinking the bolt must actually have shifted if the front arm has now moved - indicating maybe the whole thing has freed up. Will let you know when know.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 06:43 AM
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I removed the rust from the with a screwdriver and sanddpaper on the inside part, wd-15 for a few hours and with a hamer and air tool it's not that hard.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 11:52 AM
Del
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If the bolts are that rusted/corroded, I don't think I would reuse them, as I'm not sure you could ever eliminate any of the potentially existing sources of corrosion completely. New ones with anti-seize would be the way to go unless you plan on pulling the old ones once in a while to check and recoat (I suspect that is an unlikely occurrence).

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
If the bolts are that rusted/corroded, I don't think I would reuse them, as I'm not sure you could ever eliminate any of the potentially existing sources of corrosion completely. New ones with anti-seize would be the way to go unless you plan on pulling the old ones once in a while to check and recoat (I suspect that is an unlikely occurrence).
Not to mention the possibility of over torquing the bolt while trying to free it. Overtorque can permanently damage a bolt and it is very hard to check for this type of weakening. Usually the weakened spot is only found at the break.....

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 08:36 AM
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I'm pretty sure these bolts are grade 8 and the nuts on the end were not the problem getting them off. It takes an incredible amount of force to damage such bolts.

Are Grade 8 bolts more brittle than Grade 5? (8.8 vs 10.9 Metric) | Helping you work smarter not harder

I would not be concerned about them failing at all even after hammering the crap out of them. Hit them with a wire wheel to get them smooth and antisieze and done.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 09:08 AM
Del
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Not so worried about structural damage to the capabilities of the bolts, just the likely reoccurrence of corrosion, thus requiring the same removal operations. Always nice to start off with clean noncorroded pieces. That's all.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
Not so worried about structural damage to the capabilities of the bolts, just the likely reoccurrence of corrosion, thus requiring the same removal operations. Always nice to start off with clean noncorroded pieces. That's all.
That I agree with, I also noticed some of the bolts seem to be coated and when wire wheeling that coating comes off. Doesn't help the situation.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Having loosened the nut a quarter turn on both of these bolts and seen the adjustable arm now moves relative to the bolt, can see they are not 'frozen' where the bolt passes through the hub/strut and fixed length arm.
Question: is the metal inner of the fixed length arm bush likely to be seized to the bolt or is the bolt likely to be just siezed to the caliper/strut? My concern is if the metal inner of the fixed length arm bush is siezed to the bolt then forcing the bolt to turn could rip up the bush. Have no idea how to replace the bush if it does. Am I just over thinking this, for a change....?
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 02:32 PM
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Overthinking it. Just work it out with a mallet and some finesse. Like I said worst case you may need a tap and die for the threads.
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-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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